Official Luthiers Forum! :: View topic - B-2c Carpathian spruce / cocobolo w/adjustable neck

...And what are the woods used?

Steve

Was this a commissioned piece? And what are the woods used?

Can we assume there are CF rods in the neck, and if yes, did you follow Rick's lead and dado them partially into the fingerboard? I do not see a truss rod cover. Does that mean no truss rod, or are you somehow stealthily hiding truss rod access beneath the soundboard, within the box?

Looking forward to seeing your guitars in Montreal. Will this one be there?

What do you mean, flared fretboard? And would you give some more details on your oil varnish finish? That is just so warm and inviting!

Did ya use Gorilla white on this ?

What did you use for your hardware?

Laurent, I am very impressed with the purflings. Tell us a bit more about it!

…/…I have been dying to see what kind of sound I would get from the floating bit of the extension, especially way up there…/…

In structural terms I would add that I inserted a 3/8" steel tube in the neck heel, that's where the cap screw determining the neck angle butts against.

The neck block is an intricate piece of joinery with Spanish feet going on top & back and butting on the 1st brace of each plate, which are joined by solid side braces and not scooped at the ends. No flying buttresses though, I am not a believer. The guitar has been strung up for 2 months now and is very stable.

First, is your steel tube in the heel welded to the truss rod? Second, do you feel that flying buttresses cause problems, or don't do the job they're intended to do, or do you simply prefer the construction method you described (with the Spanish feet, etc)?

Author:	Laurent Brondel [ Mon Jun 29, 2009 12:59 pm ]
Post subject:	B-2c Carpathian spruce / cocobolo w/adjustable neck
This is quite a prototype as I broke my usual rule and tried a few new ideas at once. Fully adjustable neck and induced lateral arch on the top and back (5') instead of a domed shape. 25" scale, 24 fret "flared" fingerboard, oil varnish finish. Even though it is a steel string there is an obvious Viennese influence, and the neck mechanism is directly influenced by Rick Turner (with his permission…). I thought about it for a while but couldn't come up with anything better or more functional and elegant.

Author:	Laurent Brondel [ Mon Jun 29, 2009 1:00 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: B-2c Carpathian spruce / cocobolo w/adjustable neck
And a couple more:

Author:	Mark A Thorpe [ Mon Jun 29, 2009 1:18 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: B-2c Carpathian spruce / cocobolo w/adjustable neck
Nice guitar. I dig the rosette and the bindings very unique.

Author:	SteveSmith [ Mon Jun 29, 2009 1:50 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: B-2c Carpathian spruce / cocobolo w/adjustable neck
Very nice! I am finally finishing up my first with a Doolin type adjustable neck (a non-cutaway) and have been racking my brain to figure out a way to make a cutaway without having a ledge of some kind where the neck intersects the body. Yours is an interesting approach as I had not considered exposing the gap.

Author:	Steve Kinnaird [ Mon Jun 29, 2009 2:04 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: B-2c Carpathian spruce / cocobolo w/adjustable neck
Laurent, as elegant as ever. Was this a commissioned piece? And what are the woods used? Steve

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Author:	Dennis Leahy [ Mon Jun 29, 2009 2:56 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: B-2c Carpathian spruce / cocobolo w/adjustable neck
Steve Kinnaird wrote: ...And what are the woods used? Steve oh oh oh pick me! pick me! Is it Cocobolo bound in curly Maple with a Honduras Mahogany neck? Can we assume there are CF rods in the neck, and if yes, did you follow Rick's lead and dado them partially into the fingerboard? I do not see a truss rod cover. Does that mean no truss rod, or are you somehow stealthily hiding truss rod access beneath the soundboard, within the box? I grappled with the engineering on that, and decided to cantilever high enough over the top to provide truss rod adjustment access above the soundboard. If you figured a way to do it beneath the soundboard, you must have buried the truss rod deep in the neck, following the neck taper (deeper at the heel end.) Oh yeah, Beautiful, geetar! Dennis

Author:	Corky Long [ Mon Jun 29, 2009 2:57 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: B-2c Carpathian spruce / cocobolo w/adjustable neck
Laurent - What an extraordinarily elegant looking guitar - I like the experimentation!! How does it sound?

Author:	Neil Gardiner [ Mon Jun 29, 2009 2:59 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: B-2c Carpathian spruce / cocobolo w/adjustable neck
Very nice looking guitar Laurent. I always like the aesthetics of your work. Looking forward to seeing your guitars in Montreal. Will this one be there? Neil

Author:	Chris aka Sniggly [ Mon Jun 29, 2009 3:18 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: B-2c Carpathian spruce / cocobolo w/adjustable neck
Laurent have you had enough time 'alone' with it to get a good grasp on it's tonal differences compared to your previous work? It's beautiful! Just another goal for me to look up to. Chris

Author:	Geordie Adams [ Mon Jun 29, 2009 3:20 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: B-2c Carpathian spruce / cocobolo w/adjustable neck
hi Laurent Beautifully proportioned, just asking to be played. How would you describe it's sound?. Fine work Geordie

Author:	WaddyThomson [ Mon Jun 29, 2009 3:32 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: B-2c Carpathian spruce / cocobolo w/adjustable neck
That's really beautiful, Laurent. It looks like all the features fit nicely. Great job, though I wouldn't expect less from you, from what I've seen, here.

Author:	Joe Sustaire [ Mon Jun 29, 2009 3:36 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: B-2c Carpathian spruce / cocobolo w/adjustable neck
Beautiful work Laurent! That is just elegant all over. What do you mean, flared fretboard? And would you give some more details on your oil varnish finish? That is just so warm and inviting! Thanks, Joe

Author:	Todd Rose [ Mon Jun 29, 2009 4:17 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: B-2c Carpathian spruce / cocobolo w/adjustable neck
I love it, Laurent. Very elegant, very tasteful, very beautiful. Bravo! How does it sound?

Author:	Mike Collins [ Mon Jun 29, 2009 4:38 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: B-2c Carpathian spruce / cocobolo w/adjustable neck
Absolutly stunning ! A real luthiers art guitar ! I love the bridge shape ! The overall look & workmanship is over the top ! Did ya use Gorilla white on this ? Mike

Author:	Arnt Rian [ Tue Jun 30, 2009 2:23 am ]
Post subject:	Re: B-2c Carpathian spruce / cocobolo w/adjustable neck
Lovely guitar! I'm was going to guess Madrose, but then I checked the thread title…

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Author:	bertoncini [ Mon Jun 29, 2009 6:21 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: B-2c Carpathian spruce / cocobolo w/adjustable neck
Very nice guitar, tastefully done. I too have talked to Rick about that neck joint and have not had sucess in locating the hardware. What did you use for your hardware?

Author:	Dave Higham [ Mon Jun 29, 2009 6:51 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: B-2c Carpathian spruce / cocobolo w/adjustable neck
Very elegant Laurent (as usual).

Author:	peterm [ Mon Jun 29, 2009 6:58 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: B-2c Carpathian spruce / cocobolo w/adjustable neck
Laurent, I am very impressed with the purflings. Tell us a bit more about it!

Author:	phil [ Mon Jun 29, 2009 8:31 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: B-2c Carpathian spruce / cocobolo w/adjustable neck
i'll join all the others in saying that is a gorgeous instrument. congratulations on great choices and beautiful execution. wouldn't it be great to have rick do a tutorial on the neck joint?! phil

Author:	Burton LeGeyt [ Tue Jun 30, 2009 12:34 am ]
Post subject:	Re: B-2c Carpathian spruce / cocobolo w/adjustable neck
Looks great Laurent! The purfling is really nice. I dig the angled 24 fret board also! I am about to string one up myself with the same thing. I have been waiting a long time while I have been fussing over the finish but I have been dying to see what kind of sound I would get from the floating bit of the extension, especially way up there. What is it like? Are you still getting a nice clear note? What sort of reinforcement did you run up under the fingerboard? The Coco looks great too

Author:	Laurent Brondel [ Tue Jun 30, 2009 7:01 am ]
Post subject:	Re: B-2c Carpathian spruce / cocobolo w/adjustable neck
Thanks to all for the very nice comments! I'll try to answer the questions below: Steve Kinnaird wrote: Was this a commissioned piece? And what are the woods used? This is a spec guitar. Carpathian top, cocobolo B&S, backplate and butt wedge (resawed from a nice plank), Braz peghead veneer, ebony FB, bridge & pins, curly maple/black fibre "wheat" purfling (same for the rosette + 1 strip of cocobolo), 3 piece Honduran mahogany neck. Dennis Leahy wrote: Can we assume there are CF rods in the neck, and if yes, did you follow Rick's lead and dado them partially into the fingerboard? I do not see a truss rod cover. Does that mean no truss rod, or are you somehow stealthily hiding truss rod access beneath the soundboard, within the box? 2 1/8" x 3/8" CF rods dadoed into the FB and neck stock: that's the only way to give support to the cantilevered FB, and it works. The 2-way truss-rod is accessible at the neck block, but the neck needs to come off. I didn't want to weaken this area in the slightest. With the CF rods I haven't had to adjust it beyond tightening it very slightly to avoid rattle. The neck comes off in 3 seconds… Corky Long wrote: How does it sound? Like one of my guitars… Seriously, the bracing "under the hood" is the same I do on 12 fretters, except for the 5" lateral arch. Because of this I think it has a little more "bark" in the mids and strong fat trebles as you go up the neck, not unlike an archtop tone. It is subtle and is still a steel strings with a rich, clear tone with good bass registers. That being said I used Carpathian and cocobolo because I am very familiar with those woods and knew what to expect in terms of basic tonal "characteristics", perhaps. Neil Gardiner wrote: Looking forward to seeing your guitars in Montreal. Will this one be there? Yes, I am bringing this one to the show, along with 5 other guitars. Joe Sustaire wrote: What do you mean, flared fretboard? And would you give some more details on your oil varnish finish? That is just so warm and inviting! The end of the fretboard is tapered from bass to treble like Viennese guitars, or very early Martins (which are quite Viennese…). I think I've commented quite a few times on my varnish method, a search in the archives should dig it up. Or PM me and I'll send you my schedule. Mike Collins wrote: Did ya use Gorilla white on this ? This one was done with HHG and TB1. But I've used Gorilla wood glue on quite a number of guitars since, I love it. Thanks for recommending it Mike! I use it mostly for gluing the plates to the rims, and for bridges. It sets much faster than TB1, because of this does not slide around, colour is transparent and it seems at least as strong as TB. bertoncini wrote: What did you use for your hardware? Regular 8-32 set screws with brass inserts and brass nuts for the parallel adjustments, and 10-24 socket cap screws and inserts for the angle adjustment. Most available at your local hardware store or HD/Lowe's, some I got from McMasterCarr. I know Rick fabricates his hardware, similar to that of Howe-Orme guitars, which is player-piano hardware, really. peterm wrote: Laurent, I am very impressed with the purflings. Tell us a bit more about it! .050" curly maple and .020" black fibre if I recall, stacked at an angle and planed/drum sanded flat at about .040" thickness. Same principle as making herringbone, but with a much shallower angle. It is the same that is used for the rosette, with a .020" curly maple line between the inverted purfling lines. The rest is your usual 10/10/10 or 10/20/10 black/maple/black purfs that I also make myself (I like curly maple…). Burton LeGeyt wrote: …/…I have been dying to see what kind of sound I would get from the floating bit of the extension, especially way up there…/… The FB is reinforced with dadoed CF rods (perhaps 1/8" into the FB). I routed 2 channels on the top over the neck block "tongue" to have them full depth there. It sounds fine, no loss unless you fret the 24 fret over the soundhole, which is hardly accessible anyway. In structural terms I would add that I inserted a 3/8" steel tube in the neck heel, that's where the cap screw determining the neck angle butts against. The 2nd cap screw butts against a brass insert on the upper bout and is there to lock the system. It is unecessary, except to keep the neck in place while changing strings for example. The neck block is an intricate piece of joinery with Spanish feet going on top & back and butting on the 1st brace of each plate, which are joined by solid side braces and not scooped at the ends. No flying buttresses though, I am not a believer. The guitar has been strung up for 2 months now and is very stable.

Author:	Matthew Jenkins [ Wed Jul 01, 2009 2:06 am ]
Post subject:	Re: B-2c Carpathian spruce / cocobolo w/adjustable neck
Laurent, That is a beautiful looking guitar. I've been working for years trying to get that perfect fit neck to body join! Sheesh, needn't have bothered. Mat

Author:	Colin S [ Wed Jul 01, 2009 5:03 am ]
Post subject:	Re: B-2c Carpathian spruce / cocobolo w/adjustable neck
Your usual perfect work Laurent. Colin

Author:	Todd Rose [ Wed Jul 01, 2009 5:22 am ]
Post subject:	Re: B-2c Carpathian spruce / cocobolo w/adjustable neck
Laurent Brondel wrote: In structural terms I would add that I inserted a 3/8" steel tube in the neck heel, that's where the cap screw determining the neck angle butts against. The neck block is an intricate piece of joinery with Spanish feet going on top & back and butting on the 1st brace of each plate, which are joined by solid side braces and not scooped at the ends. No flying buttresses though, I am not a believer. The guitar has been strung up for 2 months now and is very stable. Two questions for you, Laurent, if you've got the time. First, is your steel tube in the heel welded to the truss rod? Second, do you feel that flying buttresses cause problems, or don't do the job they're intended to do, or do you simply prefer the construction method you described (with the Spanish feet, etc)? BTW, I'm sending you a pm about an unrelated subject.

Author:	Laurent Brondel [ Wed Jul 01, 2009 7:02 am ]
Post subject:	Re: B-2c Carpathian spruce / cocobolo w/adjustable neck
Todd Rose wrote: First, is your steel tube in the heel welded to the truss rod? Second, do you feel that flying buttresses cause problems, or don't do the job they're intended to do, or do you simply prefer the construction method you described (with the Spanish feet, etc)? Todd, the (hollow) steel tube is not welded to the truss rod. It is filled with a 1/4" walnut dowel and does its job of keeping the short grain of the heel from bending with string tension. I am almost sure flying buttresses work for their intended purpose. However I prefer not to add those blocks and the tension on the waist, and it's an aesthetic thing maybe. My sides are very thin, so are my backs. In my mind there is nothing like the feel and tone of a lightly constructed guitar.