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Manzer Wedge
http://www.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10101&t=22794		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  RaymundH [ Thu Jun 18, 2009 8:57 am ]
Post subject:  Manzer Wedge
Hello,

Does anyone know of a tutorial or a "how to" in regards to building a wedge guitar? I assume it's a just a tilted 15' radius back, however, I am unsure how to properly profile the sides prior to bending.

Thanks,

Ray
Author:  Mike Mahar [ Thu Jun 18, 2009 10:16 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Manzer Wedge
Profiling the sides is pretty straight forward. Colin S posted a tutorial on how to transfer the profile from a mold to a template. This method is easily modified to do a Wedge.

  • Take your mold and place masking tape on the inside rim. Make the tape flush with the bottom edge.
  • Place the mold on your radius dish. Make sure you use your back radius dish.
  • Place a block under the mold at the widest part of the lower bout on one side. This block should be high enough that the distance from the bottom of the mold to the dish, at the block, is 1 inch greater than the distance from the bottom of the mold to the dish from the opposite side.
  • mount a pencil or pen onto a block so that the point of the pen will contact the masking tape all around the mold. You may have to add a second piece of tape to one side of the mold.
  • Using the pen scribe a line onto the tape following the rim and keeping the block mounted to the pen in contact with the radius dish.
  • Carefully remove the tape from one side of the mold and place it on a piece of thin plywood so that the straight bottom edge of the tape is flush with one edge of the plywood. Do it for the other side.
  • Cut carefully along the line drawn on the tape. This is your profile.

Look at the picture in Colin's tutorial. The only real difference is when you raise up one side of the mold by an inch.
http://www.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10102&t=8117%22
Author:  TonyKarol [ Thu Jun 18, 2009 10:17 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Manzer Wedge
Hi ray,

if it were me, i wouldnt profile the sides before bending (I dont build that way anyhow ...)

Simply make the rim square to start, then mark the desired wedge profile using the bowl by tipping the rim, then cut/plane and then sand till its even, and ready to accept the back (most would do this on the back, not the top)
Author:  Dave Higham [ Thu Jun 18, 2009 11:41 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Manzer Wedge
Whichever way you do it, don't forget to tilt it in the other axis too, for the difference in depth between the heel and the tail.
Author:  Fred Tellier [ Thu Jun 18, 2009 11:58 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Manzer Wedge
Hi Ray

I did basically what Collin's tutorial showed, but after propping the mold over the dish with both back angles I measured down to the dish from the top of the mold every inch and plotted the values on my template material. I first plotted the values at lower bout treble and bass side and butt and neck end to find out how much to add to the measurements to get the profile. I just added this fudge factor plus another 1/16" to each measurement. I used a differential on the wedge of 7/8" at the widest point of the lower bout. It only took about 1 hour to plot the profile once I figured out what I was going to do

I am thinking of building a wedge D size next.

If you haven't seen the resultant guitar check this topic http://www.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10101&t=22685

Fred
Author:  Rick Davis [ Thu Jun 18, 2009 12:23 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Manzer Wedge
I pretty much do it as Mike Mahar described but mark directly on the rim rather than on tape. Propping the mold-and-rim so that the depths are correct at head and tail can be a nuisance (a few wedges help) but it's pretty straightforward once everything is in place. A difference of 3/4" to 1" is about right.

After you've marked the rim, trim with plane or -- for more radical surgery -- with one of those scary Dremel circular saw blades. Sand to fit. Patience ...

Then make a pattern from the rim so you don't have to go through all this again.

Have a good time fitting the binding around the back at the cutaway!
Author:  Alan Carruth [ Thu Jun 18, 2009 12:49 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Manzer Wedge
The biggest problem with a wedged back is getting the binding rout right. You can cut it by hand, with a marking gauge, chisel, and file, but that takes a couple of days. Some variant of the Fleischman/Williams jig makes it a lot easier. I made a somwhat different setup, which can be seen on the New England Luthier's website.

BTW, a fellow named Smith tok out a patent on the wedged guitar body in 1969, iirc, so if you're going to put a name on it......
Author:  muthrs [ Thu Jun 18, 2009 1:33 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Manzer Wedge
You're right Al, nothing new under the sun and credit should be properly given. Don't have to worry about patent infringement though. That one would have run out awhile ago.
Author:  Mike Mahar [ Thu Jun 18, 2009 2:07 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Manzer Wedge
If you are marking on the actual side, you have to take into account the tail to heel taper. However, if you are making a template you don't. Once I have captured the two curves on the tape, I transfer them to poster board and cut out along the curve with scissors. I then measure the different rim heights on my templates and line up the curve to those points. I draw along the curve.
Author:  wbergman [ Thu Jun 18, 2009 2:58 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Manzer Wedge
I made a classical wedge 25 or 30 years ago. I trimmed the sides after bending and assembling the sides. I put the lining in first, but I don't know if it helped or not. You could wrap some tape around a hacksaw blade for a handle and I think it will go fast. I don't really recall how I transferred the dimensions to mark the saw line, but I did not espect it to be perfect, and I left extra to sand. Then I sanded it on a sanding board.
Author:  matt jacobs [ Thu Jun 18, 2009 4:11 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Manzer Wedge
Alan Carruth wrote:
The biggest problem with a wedged back is getting the binding rout right. You can cut it by hand, with a marking gauge, chisel, and file, but that takes a couple of days. Some variant of the Fleischman/Williams jig makes it a lot easier. I made a somwhat different setup, which can be seen on the New England Luthier's website.

BTW, a fellow named Smith tok out a patent on the wedged guitar body in 1969, iirc, so if you're going to put a name on it......


At ASIA, During Grit Laskin's presentation, Linda Manzer was in the audience, they were talking about the "Manzer" wedge and Grit mentioned the big Mexican bass guitars, which have tapered bodies. Surely these predate all of them!
Author:  Fred Tellier [ Thu Jun 18, 2009 4:55 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Manzer Wedge
Quote:
The biggest problem with a wedged back is getting the binding rout right.


I did mine with my Stewmac True Channel and had no real issues. I had to modify the cradle to get the top to sit level as there was not enough adjustment in the jack screws.

Fred
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