Corky,
Check out Chris Paulick's "Routing Binding Using a Binding Machine" in the Video and Picture Tutorials section. He has several "How To" videos listed there and all of them are great!
I guess he's heading for an Oscar
Bill
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| best routing jig for routing binding channels? http://www.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10101&t=22743 |
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| Author: | Corky Long [ Sun Jun 14, 2009 6:27 pm ] |
| Post subject: | best routing jig for routing binding channels? |
I've struggled with routing the binding channels in my previous builds (novice - have built four guitars) on the backs. The approach that I used was to use my router table, and yes, the geometry of the back gave me lots of trouble - bindings weren't square to the sides, etc. I've done a bit of reading on the topic and I think I understand the issue - need the router bit to be perpendicular to the sides, NOT parallel to the top; due to the taper of the sides, you'll have problems otherwise. Not sure why the book that I read on the topic ever suggested that a table router was the right approach. It seems basically impossible to get it right that way. Who has a jig or simple solution that they like, that delivers consistent binding channels of the proper depth and orientation to the sides? I'd like to avoid the $230 solution from Stewmac unless necessary - especially if it's not ideal. Thanks! |
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| Author: | peterm [ Sun Jun 14, 2009 6:37 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: best routing jig for routing binding channels? |
I don't use Stewmac's system but I can see it would work great if you are having a hard time. You may be able to build something similar but the $230 may be a good investment in the long run. |
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| Author: | SteveSmith [ Sun Jun 14, 2009 6:51 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: best routing jig for routing binding channels? |
I built one of these based on a picture of the 'universal binding jig'. It ate up a weekend to build it but I it is easy to use and seems to do a good job. I use the StewMac binding bit set. Attachment: BindingJig.JPG Attachment: BindingJigMtPlate.JPG Attachment: BindingChannel.JPG
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| Author: | Lillian F-W [ Sun Jun 14, 2009 8:24 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: best routing jig for routing binding channels? |
Corky, I just finished my version of Stew Mac's binding jig. I was able to get most of what I needed from one eBay supplier. The aluminum angle came from Metals Online. I have only cut one channel with it so far. But it was straight forward easy. The problems I have with it all stem from the lack of thought I put into the cradle. |
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| Author: | liquidsuspension [ Sun Jun 14, 2009 8:39 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: best routing jig for routing binding channels? |
I just ordered one of these: http://www.kennethmichaelguitars.com/bi ... chine.html I've been researching all the different ways to rout binding for my 1st build and this one seems to be the simplest and most fool-proof for a newb like myself. It functions like a router table, but overcomes the arch issues of the top and back of the guitar. I'll let you know how it goes when I get it. |
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| Author: | Heath Blair [ Sun Jun 14, 2009 9:37 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: best routing jig for routing binding channels? |
hey corky, if you have a laminate trimmer i have found the williams jig to be wonderful. i use it with the dave white modification. relatively easy and inexpensive to build. these links should help. http://www.dewguitars.com/BindingJig/Binding%20Jig.htm http://www.defaoiteguitars.com/page38.htm |
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| Author: | bill stewart [ Mon Jun 15, 2009 3:40 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: best routing jig for routing binding channels? |
Corky, Check out Chris Paulick's "Routing Binding Using a Binding Machine" in the Video and Picture Tutorials section. He has several "How To" videos listed there and all of them are great! I guess he's heading for an Oscar Bill |
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| Author: | bluescreek [ Mon Jun 15, 2009 7:09 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: best routing jig for routing binding channels? |
The key is to keep things perpendicular as possible . The few jigs that work do this well and in a sense are all based on the same theory. The secret is the bottom feet or sometimes called a donut , this is an angled piece that is machined to clear the arch and angle of the back so you locate precisely on the fore and aft line of the rout line. Building a guitar is easy , it is the fit and finish that give most builders the hardest time. If you are able to build jigs, you can find plans for these all over the web. I tried about every method there is out there to bind. I used Stew Macs; precision base , I tried the designs that locate off the side of the guitar that are mounted on the router base , ( this was very difficult as you need a holding devise for the body. ) I tried the router table jigs. In all you have to find the ones that work for you. Having built over 100 guitars and I make a living at it , you need to look at your needs and economics. I rate the biding machines per my experience like this Willliams / Fleishman jig the best Tom Rebekkes universal design next Stew mac's 3rd router table designs 4th under this it isn't worth tryin. Use bearing pattern bits Check out this link ,there is a video showing a number of jigs being used on the same video. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iY04tlrE ... re=related |
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| Author: | Robbie O'Brien [ Mon Jun 15, 2009 7:16 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: best routing jig for routing binding channels? |
I agree with John. When you are ready to get a jig, which is an investment that I highly recommend, John can ship you one. He makes nice ones! |
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| Author: | Fred Tellier [ Mon Jun 15, 2009 7:51 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: best routing jig for routing binding channels? |
I have done 3 guitars with the stewmac True channel fixture and love its ease of use. The tower style home built units also work real good, but I opted to purchase the True Channel as I didn't feel competent to build one at the time. http://www.stewmac.com/shop/Bindings,_trim/Tools_and_supplies_for_binding:_Binding_channel_cutting/TrueChannel_Binding_Routing_Jig.html Fred |
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| Author: | Ken C [ Mon Jun 15, 2009 8:54 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: best routing jig for routing binding channels? |
Corky, I use KMG's setup as well. Cost is very reasonable, and I find it works extremely well. The body rests on the shuttle and with a little downward pressure, the rims come in contact with the bit. I just glide the body around on the shuttle, making two or three passes to make sure I have clean channels. I have used it on two guitars with zero issues. The device prevents cutting too deep. The only risk is a cut too shallow, but making a few passes minimizes that risk. Attachment: bindingMachine.jpg Ken |
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| Author: | SteveSmith [ Mon Jun 15, 2009 9:57 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: best routing jig for routing binding channels? |
Ken C wrote: Corky, I use KMG's setup as well. Cost is very reasonable, and I find it works extremely well. The body rests on the shuttle and with a little downward pressure, the rims come in contact with the bit. Ken Do you just vary your downward pressure on the shuttle to keep the sides perpendicular to the table top? |
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| Author: | Ken C [ Mon Jun 15, 2009 11:40 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: best routing jig for routing binding channels? |
SteveSmith wrote: Ken C wrote: Corky, Do you just vary your downward pressure on the shuttle to keep the sides perpendicular to the table top? Yes, Steve, but it is easier than it may sound. When trying to run a hand held router with a small base, a small tilt of the router can really move the bearing/bit. However, when the router is mounted and the body is moved around the cutter/guide, the risk of a large tilt is pretty much eliminated. I focus on keeping the sides at 90 degrees. So as I am cutting the back at the upper bout, I press harder on the lower bout. Yes, I might be off a touch, but given the length of a guitar body, that tilt at the cutter head/guide is very small, and if anything I end up with a shallow cut. A couple of passes and that shallow cut should be gone. I have routed two guitars with this setup, and it works great. I make sure the bit depth is set correctly, and no longer worry about a tilt or rock of the router that will gouge the channels. Ken |
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| Author: | Darryl Young [ Mon Jun 15, 2009 12:04 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: best routing jig for routing binding channels? |
Ken, is the green material foam? Does the foam compress easil or is it fairly stiff? When you let the pressure off, does the foam spring back immediately or does it creep back to the original shape? |
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| Author: | Alan Carruth [ Mon Jun 15, 2009 12:45 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: best routing jig for routing binding channels? |
If you go to the New England Luthier's web site: http://www.newenglandluthiers.org/index.html there is a page with pictures of Don William's setup, and also the rig I made. I liked the Flieschman/Williams style rig, but it takes up a lot of bench space, so instead of using a lazy susan for the base, I hung mine from drawer glides screwed to the wall. The arm and router can be pushed back off the bench top when they are not in use. The whole thing took me less than a day to set up (I was surprised) and works well. |
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| Author: | bluescreek [ Mon Jun 15, 2009 4:26 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: best routing jig for routing binding channels? |
I have been making that jig that Alan Carruth talks about. It is a big improvement. It is more difficult to make but Craig Holden stopped making them he passed the plans to me. It does take up a large amount of space but I also make a wall mounted option. RC Tonewoods will soon have them pictured and I will soon post them on my site as will. RC Tonewoods is a distributor of Blues Creek Jigs and Fixtures. |
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| Author: | mikemcnerney [ Mon Jun 15, 2009 8:53 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: best routing jig for routing binding channels? |
I bought the hand held jig from luthier tool & am reasonably happy with it. You still have to focus extremely carefully on holding the 2 bearings against the side but the adjustments are easy. I used a spiral upcut & when they are sharp/new it works fine with a minimum of fuzz ene on the spruce. McNerney, Ottawa |
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| Author: | Lillian F-W [ Mon Jun 15, 2009 11:25 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: best routing jig for routing binding channels? |
Fred Tellier wrote: I have done 3 guitars with the stewmac True channel fixture and love its ease of use. The tower style home built units also work real good, but I opted to purchase the True Channel as I didn't feel competent to build one at the time. http://www.stewmac.com/shop/Bindings,_trim/Tools_and_supplies_for_binding:_Binding_channel_cutting/TrueChannel_Binding_Routing_Jig.html Fred Surprisingly it wasn't that difficult to put together. You do have to have a decent tap set because you are screwing the parts together. But by using linear bearings, it eliminated the complicated building aspect of it. It is very straight forward. If anyone is interested, send me a PM and I'll give you the parts list and the vendor I got them from off of on eBay. Trust me, if I could put this together anyone can. |
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| Author: | Corky Long [ Tue Jun 16, 2009 9:38 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: best routing jig for routing binding channels? |
All - Many thanks for sharing your experience and suggestions. John, great meeting you at Symposium - I'm still riding high on the experience. So - wanted to give all an update on my experience. Since work absolutely had to be done NOW (ever feel that way? - I was seriously Jonesing to do some building after a great weekend of luthiery at ASIA Symposium) and since I'd spent all available cash on zoot there, I decided to mock up my version of the KMG setup. (Granted - some of the jigs looked more stable and repeatable - no offense meant to KMG) But, since I already had a table mounted router with a remarkably similar jig, and spare foam sitting around, I gave it a shot. Also - space is limited in my shop - this looked to be a very compact approach. Frankly, I'm quite satisfied with the results. The channels look to be quite straight and perpendicular to the sides - and with minimal filing I think I'll have a result which is my best yet. We'll see what my final results are, but the foam concept seems to be quite an acceptable compromise between eyeballing it and a jig such as Fleishman's or LMI's or Stewmacs, etc. If I were in production mode - building 6 at a time - I'd certainly invest in one of those perpendicular arm jigs. But all in all, the "foam cradle" approach worked well for me. Thanks again. |
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| Author: | Alan [ Tue Jun 16, 2009 11:30 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: best routing jig for routing binding channels? |
I have used the KMG setup for my last 4 guitars ant it works well for me. I built the Flieschman/Williams jig, and while it works well, it just takes up so much room...and shoots the wood dust/chips all over the room. It seems that the mess is a little more contained with the KMG router table, especially if I hook the vac up to the table. At some point, I'll probably upgrade the trimmer on the table, but for now, it's getting the job done. |
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| Author: | Ken C [ Wed Jun 17, 2009 9:23 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: best routing jig for routing binding channels? |
Darryl Young wrote: Ken, is the green material foam? Does the foam compress easil or is it fairly stiff? When you let the pressure off, does the foam spring back immediately or does it creep back to the original shape? Sorry Darryl, I haven't had much of a chance to get online the past day or two. The foam is stiff enough to hold the guitar without sinking, but flexible enough to compress when pushed on. I did find that when my shop was very cold, as in just above freezing, the foam was a little stiff. Ken |
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| Author: | Rod True [ Thu Jun 18, 2009 1:57 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: best routing jig for routing binding channels? |
mikemcnerney wrote: I bought the hand held jig from luthier tool & am reasonably happy with it. You still have to focus extremely carefully on holding the 2 bearings against the side but the adjustments are easy. I used a spiral upcut & when they are sharp/new it works fine with a minimum of fuzz ene on the spruce. McNerney, Ottawa Mike, try a downcut bit, you won't get any fuzz (or shouldn't anyway). Here's my binding jig.  It works on the same principle as other hand held types but you move the guitar body instead of the tool. Also works the same as those that Larrivee and Taylor both use. Take a look at the Taylor factory Friday video, binding part 1 as a sort of 'tutorial' on how it's used. Here are some more pictures on it's construction. It cost very little, works very well. Just my style  The block with the bearings has two threaded rods in the end (going through the main plate) which lock the block to the main plate with some three pronged knobs. The main plate has a slot in it.   And the fine adjust for binding/purfling thickness. I move the bit in and out for the depth of cut. 
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| Author: | Darryl Young [ Thu Jun 18, 2009 6:03 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: best routing jig for routing binding channels? |
Rod, I really like that jig!!! How did you mount the bearings perpendicular to the bottom of the wooden block they are mounted on? Would you mind posting a picture of how that wooden block is mounted to the frame? I assume you loosen the mount, adjust teh screw underneath, then retighten the mount somehow. Thanks! |
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| Author: | KiwiCraig [ Thu Jun 18, 2009 7:39 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: best routing jig for routing binding channels? |
Here's my jig which has proved successful . Never had a gap in my binding or purfling and the ledges have been consistant in depth and height Attachment: anz101.jpg Attachment: anz81.jpg Attachment: anz121.jpg Here's a link to a thread I posted on the ANZLF which contains more details http://www.anzlf.com/viewtopic.php?t=192&start=0 |
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| Author: | Rene [ Tue Jun 23, 2009 8:57 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: best routing jig for routing binding channels? |
Here's a link to my new binding jig, ideas borrowed from builders here. Thanks guys. It's only been used a little on a junker yamaha but seems to work just fine. -Rene btw, this is the first time i've attemted to post pictures so I'm not sure it will work, apologies in advance. http://s762.photobucket.com/albums/xx26 ... =slideshow |
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