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| Honey Mesquite - Need help http://www.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10101&t=22652 |
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| Author: | Mike OMelia [ Sat Jun 06, 2009 11:58 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Honey Mesquite - Need help |
41" x 13.25 http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f2...e/100_1040.jpg 40" x 14" and 24" x 16" on half of board. http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f2...e/100_1041.jpg The numbers listed above are for inscribed rectangles. It looks pretty. 7/8" thick. Question is this: Will each board provide enough wood for 3 back & side sets? Think OM. Thanks, Mike |
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| Author: | Mike OMelia [ Sun Jun 07, 2009 12:27 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Honey Mesquite - Need help |
Mike O'Melia wrote: 41" x 13.25 http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f257/ ... 0_1040.jpg 40" x 14" and 24" x 16" on half of board. http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f257/ ... 0_1041.jpg The numbers listed above are for inscribed rectangles. It looks pretty. 7/8" thick. Question is this: Will each board provide enough wood for 3 back & side sets? Think OM. Thanks, Mike I fixed the links, not sure what happened... |
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| Author: | Ken Franklin [ Sun Jun 07, 2009 9:42 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Honey Mesquite - Need help |
Easy. If it's straight and dry and you have a thin kerf blade on a well- set up saw you should be able to get 4 pieces from each section at .160. I don't think I would cut it the way you have it laid out though. Maybe Bob C will chime in here. |
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| Author: | Dennis Leahy [ Sun Jun 07, 2009 9:54 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Honey Mesquite - Need help |
Mike, Although Mesquite is one of the most stable woods in the world, both in terms of the ratio between the tangential (flatsawn) and radial (quartersawn) shrinkage, and the low percentage numbers of those attributes, I would still think in terms of rift to quartersawn wood for the sides. It sure seems that if there's any wood that you could get away with using flatsawn pieces for the sides, Mesquite would be it, but as a beginner I would still be concerned about rippling of flatsawn sides during bending. Also, the closer to quartersawn your side billets are, the better the symmetry at the butt of the guitar. So, to my eyes, I see quite a few backs in your boards, but just one area on each board for sides (that would typically yield 4 to 5 slices from a 7/8" thick piece.) I see sides coming out right next to the the drywall t-square, and on the second board on the same side (left side of photo 1041.) With an ultra thin kerf blade on a well set up saw, you might get the 6th slice, making your 3rd set of sides from each side billet - meaning you'd get 6 sets total. Otherwise, from what I can see, anything beyond 4 sets of sides would be mostly flatsawn. So, a shorter answer is that if those rectangles are defect free, I see at least 4 guitars, and maybe even 6. Oh, come to think of it, if those 2 Mesquite slices are consecutive, and if you can only get 5 slices from each 7/8" thick board, then the orphan 5th slice from one matches up with the orphan 5th slice from the other to make an additional set (for a total of 5 sets of sides.) You have plenty of backs, but, being a symmetry freak, I would look to orient the back pieces for the best symmetry (and greatest stability) in the bookmatch by orienting the back seam to the most quartersawn edge of the back billets. Dennis |
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| Author: | Mike OMelia [ Sun Jun 07, 2009 11:16 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Honey Mesquite - Need help |
I do not have the boards (yet). The owner put those rectangles on them for me, just to show the largest defect free area of the boards. Mostly, I am trying to determine if $200 is a good price for those boards and, do you (all) think building guitars from this wood would be a profitable venture (would anyone want one besides me?) Now Dennis, you have brought up a point I have never considered. The reason why is I am a newbie. The issue of rift or quarter sawn vs flatsawn for sides. I wish I had understood that before. Are you saying that I should ask the seller to see if he has a quater sawn board from the same tree? Mike |
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| Author: | Dennis Leahy [ Sun Jun 07, 2009 12:04 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Honey Mesquite - Need help |
Mike O'Melia wrote: I do not have the boards (yet). The owner put those rectangles on them for me, just to show the largest defect free area of the boards. Mostly, I am trying to determine if $200 is a good price for those boards and, do you (all) think building guitars from this wood would be a profitable venture (would anyone want one besides me?) Now Dennis, you have brought up a point I have never considered. The reason why is I am a newbie. The issue of rift or quarter sawn vs flatsawn for sides. I wish I had understood that before. Are you saying that I should ask the seller to see if he has a quater sawn board from the same tree? Mike Hi Mike, I know a Texan (transplant, but now a Texan) that said he is getting some interest from Texans for Mesquite guitars. So, I think you will do OK. You may want to ask Michael Payne what he thinks the demand might be. (Not just Texans, but folks from the southwest that have some sort of a reverence for Mesquite.) I don't think $200 is a steal on those particular boards (you're paying a premium for the width of the slabs, and you only really care about 8 or 9 usable inches of the width), but if you only got 4 sets from them (and agree not to pay yourself for any of your time selecting wood, laying out billets, or resawing - and don't amortize any of the saw blade saw or electricity to the resawing) then that's $50/set cost. That should be easy to recoup, either from other curious builders that would buy a set from you, or from the sale of an instrument. A board 5x32 will yield sides for most guitars, maybe 34" to 36" long for the most serpentine cutaway. If you were able to find 2 boards that size, quartersawn, to use as your side billets, then you could just buy a single wide slab (whichever one has an edge closest to 90° quartersawn) for your backs. You'd probably be spending $50 less, have less scrap, and your sides would have strong symmetry at the guitar butt. I'll throw out another twist to this, and that is since Mesquite is one of the world's most stable woods, I might be much more adventurous with the wood for the back than with just about any other wood. For example, I'd think about a back billet that was about 9" wide, well quartersawn on one edge only (for that symmetry in the back joint that I'm particular to), and then let Mother Nature's whims fill out the rest of the width of the board with maybe some small burl patches ("cats paws") or some moderately wild or twisty grain. I'm not saying it is wise to do this, but again, if you want to be adventurous, then this is the species of wood to do it in. The mesquite guitars I have seen in photos have very little contrast in the wood after finish is applied - sort of a uniform brown with very faint grain markings. So, what you're seeing in raw wood may lose quite a bit of drama under a finish. That alone would make me look for back wood with more character, such as strong color zoning, stripes, or some patches of burl or wild grain that would end up on the bouts. Dennis |
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| Author: | John Lewis [ Sun Jun 07, 2009 2:53 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Honey Mesquite - Need help |
Hi Mike- If I understand this correctly, you have the chance to buy two 7/8" thick boards - each roughly 80" long and 14" wide for $200.00. That works out to about $14.50-15.00 a boardfoot for 2 boards that about are 1/3 waste from the get go. Then after cutting away to get billets for the backs and sides, what you are using is costing you about $30.00+ per usable boardfoot. That is as expensive as some rosewoods. I have been buying nice quartered 4/4 Cocobolo for $13.00-22.00 per boardfoot lately. I choose boards that will produce little waste. I know $40-50.00 per set for mesquite doesn't sound like much, but after resawing Cocobolo sets, even the most expensive (very pretty) stuff costs me about $40 per set (at $30.00 per boardfoot). I'm not trying to talk you out of the buy, I'm just trying to give a little perspective about the cost. The main thing to ask yourself is if this is worth it to you - in time and money. Check the internet to see what is the B.F. cost of mesquite. I did a google search and no sellers have prices listed. One other thing is that it is hard to find clear lumber without large knots, voids or drying checks. It seems finding mesquite big enough for guitar billets might be a little tough. If you really want mesquite back and sides these boards may be a decent deal. I would still find out the B.F. price on mesquite this size to figure out whether it is worth $200.00. See if you have some wiggle room on the price - I think Dennis is right about these being too much. Good luck- |
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| Author: | Mike_P [ Sun Jun 07, 2009 4:46 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Honey Mesquite - Need help |
my 2¢ on the whole concept is best illustrated by the following story: years ago I was working on a huge custom home that had a study with mesquite as the flooring..the deck above this room had a leak and it rained something fierce one weekend.... all of the lower cabinets had to be pulled and the carcases thrown away (the doors and other items that didn't get direct contact were salvageable)....the mesquite had to be ripped up and the subfloor removed....the mesquite didn't warp, crack, nothing...it was reused after it had dried out....the only hardwood floor I've ever seen to take such abuse.... the only thing I can think of that justifies the price of those boards is the fact that they are so wide for that species.... |
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| Author: | Mike OMelia [ Sun Jun 07, 2009 5:31 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Honey Mesquite - Need help |
Well, the boards are 40 to 48" long, not 80" (together yes, 80") My math says $35/bf at the original $190 PER board. But the seller offered $210 for both boards which really makes it $18/BF. I think. The grain is interesting, but if it will not stand out under finish, I am prolly not interested. Plus, I would still have to find a nice quarter sawn piece for the sides (now that I have been educated on that, thanks Dennis) Prolly gonna let this go. Mike |
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| Author: | MRS [ Sun Jun 07, 2009 7:11 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Honey Mesquite - Need help |
Maybe its just my eyes but does the lower board look cupped to you? This might limit what you can get outta the board after jointing and planing...Mike |
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