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hot off the press! Rosewood/Adi 12 fretter
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Author:  Burton LeGeyt [ Wed Jun 03, 2009 10:55 pm ]
Post subject:  hot off the press! Rosewood/Adi 12 fretter
Hello guys and girls,

I strung up this guy the other day and the weather was perfect this afternoon for some photos so I set up the old sheet in front of the garage (actually, on the sidewalk, cars were passing me inches away as I took these!) and snapped some photos. This is by far my best work to date and I am very excited about it. There are still many areas to improve of course but I am glad I continue to move ahead.

I used the Chladni tuning on this one and purposefully kept the top stiffer than I would normally as I had stiffened the back also and wanted to match them. I did not stress out about closing the circle (and didn't) but I am still very happy with the sound so far. It is the most even guitar I have built yet. It is the second I have built from this Guatemalen Rosewood (Dalbergia cubiziquitis?) that I found at a local woodlot and I love this wood. It is light in weight and on both guitars has done something very similar to the bass notes that I love. It will be interesting to see how this one ages compared to the last.

I have been building with the bevel cutaway on the last few and am getting a sense of it. For things like reaching for harmonics and for hitting single notes up the neck it is really great. Your hand kind of lays on it and you can get up past 15 (on a 12 fretter). It is not the best though for playing chords above the body join. For that you need to be able to wrap your arm around in a way you cannot easily do with this cutaway. I still like it very much but it is nice to be able to play one a lot and realize its strengths and weaknesses.

I have been working a lot on designing some new body shapes. After the past few years of slow building I am much more confident of what I want to see and what I want to build. Also, I have a better sense of how I want the body shape to help with tone and structure. This is the largest new size (15 3/4 wide, 20 3/4 long, 4 1/4 deep at the tail) and I am excited about them as a group. I am also happy with the appointments, I like the small circles repeating. I think maybe the backstrip was a little much on this one, but it was good practice. I imagined the colors letting it blend in more but it turned more red than the back plates did. Anyway, enough blabbing, here are the specs and photos. Thanks for looking!

Red Spruce top
Guatemalan Rosewood b&s
Amazon RW fingerboard
Brazilian bridge, headstock plate
Mahogany neck
redwood burl rosette, backstrip
koa and maple purflings
25 5/8 scale
gold grovers with homeade BRW buttons
bone pins/saddle/nut
spectacular finish by Joe White (the transition between gloss and satin in the slothead slots is suh-weet.)

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Author:  TonyKarol [ Wed Jun 03, 2009 11:06 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: hot off the press! Rosewood/Adi 12 fretter
That is QUITE spectacular .. love the cutaway ..I have done a couple like that, but not veneered (I am assuming thats what you did there - I have blacked mine out to match ebony binding.

Very, very NICE.
Author:  Jim Watts [ Wed Jun 03, 2009 11:08 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: hot off the press! Rosewood/Adi 12 fretter
Nice work Burton! Congratulations.
Author:  P@uL [ Wed Jun 03, 2009 11:39 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: hot off the press! Rosewood/Adi 12 fretter
great looking wood combo and those cutaways are sexy. and i haven't learned much on these ported boxes any good links or threads possibly i have missed?
Author:  peterm [ Thu Jun 04, 2009 12:10 am ]
Post subject:  Re: hot off the press! Rosewood/Adi 12 fretter
Very nice indeed!! Burton, you sure did a fantastic job on this one!

BTW, I would love to try that rosewood. Do you know who sells it?

Thanks,
Peter
Author:  Heath Blair [ Thu Jun 04, 2009 12:13 am ]
Post subject:  Re: hot off the press! Rosewood/Adi 12 fretter
burton, looks awesome. im definitely a fan. i for one like the back strip and think it blends well with the rest of the guitar. for having so much detail, it doesnt seem over the top or distracting. thats a good thing in my book. good job.

im also interested in the details of the cutaway.
Author:  Christian Schmid [ Thu Jun 04, 2009 12:17 am ]
Post subject:  Re: hot off the press! Rosewood/Adi 12 fretter
Looks truly awesome [:Y:]

Peter - Gilmer has a few sets listed for around $100 per set.

cheers, Christian
Author:  Todd Rose [ Thu Jun 04, 2009 6:08 am ]
Post subject:  Re: hot off the press! Rosewood/Adi 12 fretter
WOW, Burton, I'm speechless. Give yourself a pat on the back, man. I LOVE it. I want to see it in person and take it for a test drive. I mean, I seriously really want to make that happen. Where do you live? Do you have plans to bring it to the ASIA Symposium or any other shows/gatherings in the near future?

I am extremely inspired by this guitar, Burton. I could go on and on about all the things I like about it, just from seeing a few photos. I have little doubt that my enthusiasm will only soar higher when I get to see it up close, hear it, and play it. I HAVE to get my hands on this guitar.

[clap] [clap] [clap] [clap] [clap] [clap] [clap] [clap] [clap] [clap]
Author:  Peter J [ Thu Jun 04, 2009 6:56 am ]
Post subject:  Re: hot off the press! Rosewood/Adi 12 fretter
Very nice work Burton [clap] [clap] The detail work is precise and really gives the instrument an entire additional dimension. I really like it. I too would like to see some details on how you did the cutaway.
Author:  Terence Kennedy [ Thu Jun 04, 2009 7:08 am ]
Post subject:  Re: hot off the press! Rosewood/Adi 12 fretter
I almost never comment on these threads either but this deserves a big WOW! Well done! Looks like you have a floating fretboard extension. Tell us about your neck and neck joint. Construction, internal support etc.
Terry
Author:  Neil Gardiner [ Thu Jun 04, 2009 7:23 am ]
Post subject:  Re: hot off the press! Rosewood/Adi 12 fretter
Yes, what everybody else. Awesome. Very very nice details.

I really like the 3 piece end graft. I'll be stealing that idea :)

Neil
Author:  Burton LeGeyt [ Thu Jun 04, 2009 7:24 am ]
Post subject:  Re: hot off the press! Rosewood/Adi 12 fretter
Thanks guys!!
I really appreciate all of your words. It means a lot. Let me see if I can answer some questions here:

Tony: Yes, the cutaway is veneered. There are supports glued in to the sides and the top (it is not completely solid) and then a piece is bent to fit and epoxied in place. This is the first I have done with matching side wood and I like it the best so far.

Paul: I am not sure if I could point you to a specific thread about the ports. I know that R.M Motolla and Al Carruth were working on an experiment using Al's corker guitar. R.M. had us play it blindfolded and made some changes. I think they said it was about half and half could tell the difference. I think Tim McKnight did some experiments also and found an increase in volume in all directions, that may be on his website. I like them very much. On some guitars it is subtle and on some it is amazing. This one is more on the subtle side of things. I have been moving it slowly closer to the neck also, I have never experimented with ports closer to the lower bout.

Filippo and Heath: Thanks guys! I like slotheads too. I tried my hand at a volute too, here is shot of the back:

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Since there is some interest I can work up a little bevel cutaway mini tute. I am working on one now that should get finished up in a month or so and I can take some pictures as I go. In a nutshell, the supports are added under the top and to the side in that area before closing the box. Once the binding and purfling ledges are routed you go back in and rout the purfling ledge into the top for the cutaway. I have been routing that channel wider and adding a few thousands of the same material that the bevel will be to the outside of the purfs. Then you go in and sand/rout the bevel opening. The end part must be done by hand and careful attention has to be paid to keeping the sanding in the same plane so the veneer will fit cleanly. I slowly creep up on the purflings, you want to just touch the outermost line so when you sand back a little it will be a clean line. Adding the extra wood to the outside gives you some wiggle room if you sand through. For adding the veneer (Not technically veneer, I have been bending at .05-.06 or so) it has to be bent pretty perfectly and then taped on over epoxy. I know pictures are worth a thousand words, but that is it in a short paragraph.

Peter: I have never seen it for sale anywhere as Dalbergia Cubiziquitis. I have seen reference to it on the UMGF, but no specifics. The wood Gilmer sells as Guatemalan is Dalbergia Tucarensis and to be honest I am not sure there is a huge difference, if any. I bought one board from them that was darker than the orange stuff they usually have and the texture was very similar. The boards I have were from very low on the tree, many of them contain some stump sections and there is a great variance in color. Some of the higher up wood looks more like the Tucarensis I see being sold but the smell is a little different. While the smell is undoubtedly rosewood the wood is coarser and seemingly less hard and all of the details (this piece seems to want to spiderweb in the center) seem less crisp than the harder versions. It almost feels like Indian to the touch but is lighter and the tap is full of pinging treble sounds. If I find some more I will keep you in mind.

Todd: Thanks man! I am coming to ASIA but unfortunately this guy will be delivered this weekend. I am in Boston if you want to swing by tonight. :D I really appreciate what you say and if it was possible I would love for your feedback on the sound. I look forward to meeting you at ASIA also!
Author:  Darryl Young [ Thu Jun 04, 2009 8:05 am ]
Post subject:  Re: hot off the press! Rosewood/Adi 12 fretter
Burton, this guitar is amazing!!! I love it. Thanks for sharing the photos and I would love to see a tute on the cutaway.
Author:  Todd Rose [ Thu Jun 04, 2009 8:46 am ]
Post subject:  Re: hot off the press! Rosewood/Adi 12 fretter
Burton LeGeyt wrote:

Todd: Thanks man! I am coming to ASIA but unfortunately this guy will be delivered this weekend. I am in Boston if you want to swing by tonight. :D I really appreciate what you say and if it was possible I would love for your feedback on the sound. I look forward to meeting you at ASIA also!


Great to hear this beauty is going to a customer, Burton. What a lucky person! I still hope to find a way to get my hands on this guitar, though, and I will stubbornly persist until I've exhausted all possibilities. It would be so great if your customer were willing to let you borrow it to bring to the Symposium. I'm sure I would not be the only one who would get a lot of inspiration from having the chance to see and hear it. Any chance of that? If not, my next question would be do you think I might be able to get in touch with your customer and perhaps pay him/her a visit sometime?

Do you have any other guitars you can bring to the Symposium? I was hoping to bring two completed and one under construction, but, unfortunately, I'll only be able to bring one completed (the same mando-guitar prototype I brought to the GAL convention last summer, and to Ann Arbor) and the one under construction.
Author:  Randolph [ Thu Jun 04, 2009 9:02 am ]
Post subject:  Re: hot off the press! Rosewood/Adi 12 fretter
Burton, I don't have to run on either about all the great things you've done here. I love every single one of them!! You really did something here. Congratulations. [clap] [clap] [clap] [clap]
Author:  SteveCourtright [ Thu Jun 04, 2009 9:17 am ]
Post subject:  Re: hot off the press! Rosewood/Adi 12 fretter
A lot to love about this instrument, as raved about above. So, I will just add that thematically it is very cohesive. Very, very lovely. Kudos.
Author:  Flori F. [ Thu Jun 04, 2009 9:29 am ]
Post subject:  Re: hot off the press! Rosewood/Adi 12 fretter
Very impressive...as for your doubts about the backstrip, I don't share them. It's f'ing sharp! Love the match to the rosette. I just completed a similar rosette in redwood burl myself, using your advise. Don't think it's as gorgeous as yours though! Like the body design too.

Flori
Author:  Bill Hodge [ Thu Jun 04, 2009 9:58 am ]
Post subject:  Re: hot off the press! Rosewood/Adi 12 fretter
Dude! :ugeek: What more can I say? Everyone else has covered my thoughts and emotions on this one. Beautiful job! [clap]
Author:  Burton LeGeyt [ Thu Jun 04, 2009 10:06 am ]
Post subject:  Re: hot off the press! Rosewood/Adi 12 fretter
Thanks everyone!

Terence,
This was a new style neck for me and I am hooked on it now. I was having some troubles with humping at the neck joint and took inspiration from Colin's posts and photos. I had not been securing the fingerboard extension down even when it was flush and doing that greatly helped the distortion issues on those earlier guitars but I wanted to go a step further and add a lot more meat through that joint, like on Colin's instruments. On this one the full neck thickness (and 1 3/4 width) extends 3 inches into the body and is bolted down to an extension of the neck block that extends to the UTB. This is pretty standard I think, I see many neck blocks like this. I wanted to have some of the extension raised up for a little extra access (and I like the look, an inspration from Howard) so I made a jig that registers off of the tenon hole (a cumpiano joint, like what you were showing) and has a plexi section that allows you to build up your desired offset at the saddle point and rout the extension pocket. Everything sort of fits in from there and the visible extension pieces carry no real load and are CA'd in place and then get really locked in by the fingerboard. I am also using the classical style shaft and a separate block. Most of this work is done to the shaft only and then the block has any angle sawn into it and it is glued to the shaft. That is a little wordy but I hope it makes sense.
I also used a new system for CF reinforcements that I am happy with. I routed the truss rod slot 1/2" wide and as deep as possible to still allow for the neck profile I wanted. Then I laid a 1/2 x. 06 CF piece at the bottom of the slot and shimmed the slot so the 1/4 truss rod would be a snug fit once installed. The offset with the extension is not great enough to make adjustments at the soundhole a problem. I also inlayed the same piece of CF as high up into the fingerboard as I could, just under the fret bottoms. I did this and fretted the board before installing it and it was by far the stiffest one I have done. Once installed, those 2 pieces of CF act as a top and bottom to a beam that is in essence 1/2 x 1/2+ and has the CF where it can help most. (I think at least) Once strung up I am getting no relief at all, although the mahogany is nice and dense and that is not that strange right off the bat.

Todd,
I wish I could bring it but he has been waiting a long time. I had another experimental buttress guitar I thought would be ready but I am on try #3 of sanding back the finish and starting over so unfortunatley I am coming solo this time but I am still mega excited!!
Author:  Christian Schmid [ Thu Jun 04, 2009 10:39 am ]
Post subject:  Re: hot off the press! Rosewood/Adi 12 fretter
Hi Burton,

this guitar intrigues me really a lot...I come back all the time to look at it again.

I'm wondering about the cutaway as a player. I have to say I've never owned a cutaway acoustic so my experience with them is limited to store encounters.

I'm wondering whether it plays like a traditional cutaway, or like something in between a cutaway and a non-cutaway guitar. I can readily see that it's easier to move the fingers to higher frets, but there still seems to be a "stop" for the wrist which isn't there with a traditional cutaway.

Could you please share your experience of playing it on the upper frets?

thanks, Christian
Author:  Bob Long [ Thu Jun 04, 2009 11:01 am ]
Post subject:  Re: hot off the press! Rosewood/Adi 12 fretter
Yes! WOW... I'm very impressed by the unique design ideas and how you carried the theme throughout the guitar! Your attention to detail is inspiring! First Class!

long
Author:  Steve Kinnaird [ Thu Jun 04, 2009 11:59 am ]
Post subject:  Re: hot off the press! Rosewood/Adi 12 fretter
Burton--well done! I love your peghead, and the back stripe is perfect.
I have a couple sets of Guatamalan rosewood, and the supplier told me it was/is Dalbergia tucurensis which is listed as a synonym for Dalbergia cubilquitzensis.
Very sweet, spicy smell, unique (I think) among the rosewoods.
Bent easily, not too heavy, nice tap and a different look.
I applaud your use of it, and am glad to see it in service.

Steve
Author:  WaddyThomson [ Thu Jun 04, 2009 1:38 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: hot off the press! Rosewood/Adi 12 fretter
Absolutely stunning guitar, Burton. Nice work. The slot head came out nicely.
Author:  Burton LeGeyt [ Thu Jun 04, 2009 2:40 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: hot off the press! Rosewood/Adi 12 fretter
Thanks Steve, I think you are right. I had the name wrong. I search for Cubilquitzensis brings up an article by Dick Boak where he identifies it as another name for Tucarensis, which makes sense. Good to know! Now I have to go get some Tucarensis...

Christian, the cutaway serves half of the service but is limited in what it offers. It excels if you are playing leads up on the higher strings, your hand kind of lays on the bevel and gives good access. A customer who went up the neck mostly for harmonics liked it very much, it was all the access he needed. Where it really lacks is in playing any sort of complicated chords above the body join. Anything needing a barre desires a full cutaway so your whole hand can come at it from below. I really like the bevel it because it gives access without completely disturbing the upper bout line, especially on the back. I don't like that about real cutaways, the asymmetry bothers me, but I do recognize that if the player is doing some great stuff up there then it needs to happen. I really admire the contoured cutaways that people do for a full cut. I think Mark Blanchard posted a method that he uses and I remember Ken Franklin posting a guitar he did with it also. It is really classy. When I started doing it I was into the idea that it was taking much less air space away than a full cutaway but now I am not so sure that is a big deal.
Author:  James W B [ Thu Jun 04, 2009 4:11 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: hot off the press! Rosewood/Adi 12 fretter
Burton that guitar is crazy insane.I`d like to try that cutaway deal sometime.Very cool looking.And the rosewood is gorgeous.where`d you get it? I`d like to try that also.
James
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