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Honduran Rosewood, Cocobolo, and CITES
http://www.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10101&t=22548		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  Christian Schmid [ Thu May 28, 2009 1:41 pm ]
Post subject:  Honduran Rosewood, Cocobolo, and CITES
Since I happen to live in Canada, I'm excluded from the Honduran Rosewood auction. gaah

I was quite surprised to read that, because I can order HR from LMI. So I did a little bit of research.

HR (and Cocobolo) is on CITES III which means, the restrictions exist only for the lumber coming from one specific country - in the case of HR and Cocobolo from Guatemala. So Hibdon's HR probably comes from Guatemala and LMI's HR from Belize.

There exist proposals from Germany on behalf of the European Union to move HR and Cocobolo up to CITES II, which would make it for us Canadians basically impossible to order those woods from any of the US vendors (I know a few places in Canada that sell Cocobolo, but have never seen HR).

I guess it's something to be aware of...if you're into those woods.

cheers, Christian
Author:  LanceK [ Thu May 28, 2009 2:12 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Honduran Rosewood, Cocobolo, and CITES
Hmm, I wonder if this will effect guitars made from these woods coming in to Canada for the Montreal show? Good thing my two are Malaysian Blackwood and Indian.
Author:  Howard Klepper [ Thu May 28, 2009 2:23 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Honduran Rosewood, Cocobolo, and CITES
Lance Kragenbrink wrote:
Hmm, I wonder if this will effect guitars made from these woods coming in to Canada for the Montreal show? Good thing my two are Malaysian Blackwood and Indian.


At least until some overzealous customs agent asks you to prove it.
Author:  Christian Schmid [ Thu May 28, 2009 2:23 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Honduran Rosewood, Cocobolo, and CITES
Honduran Mahogany is already on CITES II, however only in the form of logs, veneer, sawn wood and plywood, which means I can order a hog CNC-carved neck from LMI, but not a neck blank.

At the moment it's the same for Coco and HR under CITES III - there are only trade restrictions on logs, veneer and sawn wood from Guatemala, so a guitar should be fine.

Christian
Author:  Alexandru Marian [ Thu May 28, 2009 3:06 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Honduran Rosewood, Cocobolo, and CITES
:( and i had my eyes on a couple Hibdon sets [headinwall] [headinwall]
Author:  woody b [ Thu May 28, 2009 3:16 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Honduran Rosewood, Cocobolo, and CITES
I get confused about this stuff. So Braz is on CITES .......some other number isn't it? A guitar with BRW (even a headstock overlay) can't go anywhere can it?
Author:  Christian Schmid [ Thu May 28, 2009 3:25 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Honduran Rosewood, Cocobolo, and CITES
Brazilian Rosewood is on CITES I (species threatened with extinction). You can still trade wood and products made from it, if the lumber was acquired prior to June 1992. You'll obviously need to have proper documentation to prove that.

Christian
Author:  Frank Cousins [ Fri May 29, 2009 7:44 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Honduran Rosewood, Cocobolo, and CITES
Which naturally leads to a general question: are there currently reforestation schemes utilizing these species and/or any plans to develop sustainable trading in species such as BR in the future? OK not much use for us waiting 200-300 years, but would secure this resource for future generations and guarrantee a revenue source for those countries... have not heard on many such schemes - the sad ironiy of it all is that by far the vast majority of the deforestation that led to endangered species such as BRW, was due to simple clearence for cattle which much of the lumber simply burned.... :shock: [headinwall] :cry:
Author:  Christian Schmid [ Fri May 29, 2009 2:00 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Honduran Rosewood, Cocobolo, and CITES
Ok...I got really curious now, especially after reading some replies in the auction thread.

Here's what has to be filled out by anyone who wishes to re-export species listed under CITES (regardless of appendix I, II, or III).

http://www.fws.gov/forms/3-200-32.pdf

There's even a special section for guitar builders using brazilian rosewood...

A single shipment costs $100 !!!
A business that does exports on a regular basis could set up a master file for $200 and then an additional $5 for each single shipment...

Christian
Author:  MRS [ Fri May 29, 2009 3:07 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Honduran Rosewood, Cocobolo, and CITES
Lance Kragenbrink wrote:
Hmm, I wonder if this will effect guitars made from these woods coming in to Canada for the Montreal show? Good thing my two are Malaysian Blackwood and Indian.

If you browse down to the part of the web page titled "Musical Instrument Materials and Endangered Species" it make mention that instruments made with banned material can be sold and traded within the country made but not and other country. I also read an article in a music magazine that mentioned musicians having instruments seized because they contained banned material while travel abroad. Its hard to prove the instrument was made pre ban without having proper documentation. i know i have some instruments with banned material and would be able to provide documents to prove when it was made...Mike
http://www.art-robb.co.uk/cons.html
Author:  pineknot [ Sun May 31, 2009 12:53 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Honduran Rosewood, Cocobolo, and CITES
Frank Cousins wrote:
the sad ironiy of it all is that by far the vast majority of the deforestation that led to endangered species such as BRW, was due to simple clearence for cattle which much of the lumber simply burned.... :shock: [headinwall] :cry:


This is a total misconception, though it seems to be a shared belief by most who are totally misinformed.
Author:  jhowell [ Sun May 31, 2009 5:24 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Honduran Rosewood, Cocobolo, and CITES
Here is a good link for one preservation effort:

http://www.dalbergiapreservation.com/

I suspect that more brazilian rosewood trees have been historically cut for the perfume industry than guitar building, but this link is quite informative when talking about the deforestation of the Amazon basin in general:

http://news.mongabay.com/2009/0129-brazil.html
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