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| Side bending without wetting? http://www.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10101&t=22451 |
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| Author: | Dave_E [ Thu May 21, 2009 7:09 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Side bending without wetting? |
Hi All, I have my new Blues Creek Bender from John and am about ready to go for it on a nice .093 rosewood set. I've watched all the videos I could find on the subject, and read and seen everything from soaking the sides for 30 minutes in a tub to a wetted paper sandwich. Then I watch Taylor's "Factory Fridays" and they use NO wetting at all. Wrap the wood in paper and go for it. Proof is in the video. Anyway, does anyone subscribe to the "no wetting" with our Blues Creek and Fox type benders? Just curious. Dave |
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| Author: | stan thomison [ Fri May 22, 2009 10:21 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Side bending without wetting? |
Don't know where you got the soak for 30 minute thing, but not needed, and suggest a bad thing to do particulary with figured wood. I wouldn't at this point suggest dry bending unless just want to, no reason to. Just spritz the wood and put in a whatever you use to cover wood. I am partial and only use baking parchment. No stains or problems with that. I bend snakewood binding and lot figured wood for binding regulary and bunches of sides no problems, but always light spritz the things. If have the the bender, don't soak!!! |
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| Author: | Mike Collins [ Fri May 22, 2009 1:08 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Side bending without wetting? |
As Stan stated be careful with highly curly woods . Soaking can make them more prone to breaking. The Rosewoods usuallty do not need to be soaked. The oils in them when brought up to a high temp. will help with the bending. Entertwined grain woods like Mahogany can ripple if soaked. Just a spritz fort hose types. If you have some spare pieces of different woods try bending them on a hot pipe. This will give you an idea of the heat & moisture needed -if any. Mike |
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| Author: | Dave_E [ Fri May 22, 2009 7:13 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Side bending without wetting? |
Hi Stan, Believe it or not, the 30 minute soak is right off a recent picture video post from the DIYS'r guitar builder God himself... Campiano! I didn't believe it either. But as I watched the picture show... he's still doin gthings just like he did in his original book. Hey if it works for you, why change? Sidenote, I always thought his approch to the entire assembly was not very simple. Dave |
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| Author: | Bob Garrish [ Fri May 22, 2009 7:22 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Side bending without wetting? |
Taylor's setup does a couple things that most bending machines can't: they only do inside bends and they keep the wood fully supported on both sides during the whole bending procedure. Someone on here made a similar bender, so it's not beyond the means of a hobbiest, but it is technically a lot more difficult (and expensive) to pull off than the form benders most are using. |
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| Author: | CWLiu [ Fri May 22, 2009 11:48 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Side bending without wetting? |
Bending 2mm-thick RW sides on the pipe with no water at all is possible. I did this all the time. Softer sides(like EIR) wth scraped surface are harder to dry bend probably because of the residual compression stress, and a bit wetting helps. |
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| Author: | bluescreek [ Sat May 23, 2009 6:09 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Side bending without wetting? |
Ok there are time to soak but I only use that as a last resort. Soaking can cause warpage . If I am hand bending I will dip but not soak. It is your wood and your bender and if you want to soak there is no law against it. Most people when they bend do 1 of 2 things wrong . They may wait too long or try to bend too soon. Wood is thermo plastic and you need to allow the heat to penetrate to the cellular level , this allows the cell to crush and lets the wood bend. If you wait too long the wood will become "hardened" and it is not unlike untying a pretzel. The water will allow you a bit of time for this to happen . If you soak the wood and granted it take a few hours to really soak through a piece of wood , the cells will expand and as they expand they move. When they dry you may end up with a warped side . Wood as hard and soft areas. They will move at different rates and the contract at even more difference so you can see too much water isn't good either. You will learn very quickly to match the wood to the heat needed. Mahogany and maple do like a bit dryer and higher heat. Rosewood can be bent dry but you better have a prefect piece and the wood should be higher moisture content between 10 and 15. I like to run my wood dry as pattern grade under 8%. This isn't rocket science and there are many ways to get the same end result. I bend about 300 sets a year and have learned much. Start bending lower bouts at about 250 degrees. Upper bout at 275 to 300 and waist as soon as the upper bout is bent. Mahogany I heat to 375 paduck I just set to full and get to 420 maple is like hog rosewood bends well at 270 to 325. Highly figured woods like flamed koa or such I use wet paper so I can carry water into the bender without fear of scorching. Mostly that is what the water does. It helps to keep the wood from over heating and case hardening. Good luck and keep a bending log. The learning curve isn't too bad. You will be bending like a pro in no time. In a way it is like cutting glass . The wood can smell fear |
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