Official Luthiers Forum!

I'm attempting my first reset with an old guitar for practice.
I don't recognize these 2 wooden parts and how this will affect removing the neck.
Does this mean the neck was attached using dowels and not a dove joint?

Not to be critical, but if you don't recognize those 2 parts, you might not want to attempt a neck reset.
One is the neck block and the other appears to be the upper transverse brace with the truss rod nut showing through.
A mirror can tell you if there is another block between the neck block and the upper transverse.
I use a dual mortice and tenon bolt on joint so I use both blocks.

The neck joint could be a dovetail. I don't see bolts on the neck block to imply a bolt on. Typically you remove a fret, 15th,
Steam off the fretboard from the top and then remove.

BTW, I see it is your first post. Welcome to the OLF. This is a fantastic resource for all levels of building. What building experience or repair work do you have???

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Andy Z.
http://www.lazydogguitars.com

That's funny, I knew someone was going to say that.
You're right but I have to start somewhere.
I took it to a repair shop years ago, and he said it wasn't worth repairing, the neck is bent and the action too high.
So I thought I would attempt it myself with nothing to lose and gain some experience.
I hate to see it sit there unplayable and I can't sell as is.

So I guess the only way to tell would be to saw through somewhere?

I'm all for plunging in but, and I'm just throwing this out there, a neck reset is considered one of the most difficult repairs done to acoustic guitars. You might want to learn on something else slowly and work yourself up to that point.

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John Mayes
http://www.mayesluthier.com

Have you tried tightening the truss rod to straighten the neck? After all, that's what it's for. If it's a cheap guitar, I'd consider shaving the bridge before doing a neck reset.

If you decide to go for it, read as much as you can about it first (take a look at Frank Ford's page for example). Make sure you don't remove too much wood from the heel.

I realize that.
I've learned other things too and attempted a complete setup of this guitar and others but the neck on this guitar prevents it from getting any better.

If this is strictly a practice repair guitar, then by all means give it a try. But learn how to do it correctly no matter what the guitar is.

This is the steamer that some use.
http://www.stewmac.com/shop/Tools/Speci ... eamer.html
Basically you have to loosen the glue to pop the neck off. DONT SAW OFF ANYTHING.

You can google neck resets or search the archives in this site. But as John Mayes said it is not for rookies. I realize you are
using a "cheap" guitar and that is the best way to practice. Another option is to see if their is a luthier in your area and if you are lucky, you could do it with the guidance of a pro.

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Andy Z.
http://www.lazydogguitars.com

I made a steamer of my own, but I didn't think it would work if the neck was fitted with dowels as opposed to a dovetail.
I've read up on it and am ready to go, but this was assuming it was a dovetail, but then I saw an article saying some necks are fitted with dowels, and then I realized I can't tell which is which.

Thanks for the responses!

What is the model and make of the guitar?

Also, regardless of the neck joint (unless dual mortice and tenon or floating) You will have to heat up the
fretboard over the body to loosen the glue holding the fretboard down

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Andy Z.
http://www.lazydogguitars.com

Ok, so for any neck joint I'm going to use heat to loosen it?
Right after I loosen the fretboard portion?
I'm guessing I would need some sort of removal puller if it's not a dovetail.
I can't envision it smoothly releasing if it's joined by dowels.

Paul,

go to SmartFlix.com and rent teh neck resetting video. You will get to see a couple of necks pulled and reset. Might cost you $10 but it would be worth it for the knowledge you will gain. And it may help you pull this off successfully and any decent playing guitar is worth more than $10........and the experience of doing the whole process successfully will be worth many, many times that.

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Formerly known as Adaboy.......

Do your homework first.
Call Washburn and ask them what type of neck joint it is if you cannot tell
(847) 949-0444 ext. 5120 cust service or
1-800 US SOUND (877-6863)

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Andy Z.
http://www.lazydogguitars.com

This is not a candidate for steam removal. If you really want to try this, this is one for a shoulder tuck (slipping the neck block), or bolt on conversion. Neither of them involve any heat, or loosening of the fingerboard.

Don't expect the best of results on your first try - sounds like you're pretty new at this, so enter this endeavor with it pre-accepted that you may not end with a pretty, or even playable instrument. And don't jump in to this gung-ho and ready to go. Even if you think you're ready to dig in this afternoon, wait a week or two before starting. Research, seek more opinions, think about it, poke around online, and don't pick up your tools just yet. Trust me on this - you'll stand a much better chance at avoiding irreversible damage simply by doing this one thing.

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Eschew obfuscation, espouse elucidation.

Paul,

I would heed the advice of Andy, John, and David. These men are all seasoned luthiers and know what they're talking about. I have utmost respect for all of them!

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Bill Hodge


One does not simply, own enough guitars!

I'm not sure why you would say this, David. And I'm one of the few left around who has done a whole bunch of neck block resets (back a millennium or so ago). There may be a thick pool of finish to cut through around the heel. Is that your concern? If it has that kind of thick finish, peeling back the bindings on the back shoulder will make an unsightly mess, anyway. And he won't get practice on the dovetail reset. So long as he's OK with the guitar ending up trashed, i think he should go for it.

There's a good description of the dovetail reset on Frank Ford's Frets.com. I disagree with Frank about the use of taped shims, but that's minor.

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Howard Klepper
http://www.klepperguitars.com

When all else fails, clean the shop.

I suggested that only because I assume that the guitar is a Made in Korea doweled butt joint, and unlikely to be a dovetail or M&T.

I'll admit (and feel free to consider this in how much value you place in my suggestions), my comments are not so subtly dismissive of the repair. I'm not trying to sound harsh in what I'm going to say here, but just offering the view from where I stand. To me it's just not worth doing at all if the end purpose is only to make the guitar playable, when you could replace it with something comparable for $200. And if you want practice, I would look for a cheap old Harmony or Stella to reset - it's a more conventional joint.

Of course if this is a dovetail, it would be just fine for practice. I don't think it is, but I could be wrong. I've never actually had one apart, because they always seem to leave the building when I quote the price. If it's not a dovetail though, I'd be more likely to call if firewood.

Again, no offense Paull. Just my personal, pragmatic view. If you can find someone who can tell you it's a dovetail though, by all means use it to learn.

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Eschew obfuscation, espouse elucidation.

No offense taken.
I'll call first and find out about the joint.
The only reason for the repair is because I paid $500 for it a 8 years ago, and it's hard to find anything left handed for a decent price, let alone a 12 string.

Paul,I did my first neck Re-Set about two weeks ago on a friends Martin,not a cheap guitar.As everyone has said,this is not an easy repair.In my infinite wisdom,I went out and bought a cheapo that was in real bad shape from a buddy at the music store to practice on.Of course as it turned out,it wasn`t a dovetail, it was a doweled joint.So steaming this did squat.I decided to go ahead and give the Martin a go,and just about wet myself trying to get the neck off.I finally acheived this,and then fit the neck to the guitar with the proper adjustment.For me this was much harder than getting the neck off.I finally did get everything back in order and the guitar played great.Luck of the Irish.The advantage I had ,was that I knew what kind of neck joint I was dealing with.I can assure I don`t think I would attempt this kind of repair on anything with a joint I wasn`t sure of as David has mentioned.
James

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James W Bolan
Nashville Tennessee

If you know nothing on resets i suggest you start here to get an idea of what is required. Frank ford is one of best repairmen in the business. You can learn a lot from this site. You can also check out this video from Dan Erlewine.It's worth the money.
FRETS http://www.frets.com/FRETSPages/pagelist.html
Dan erlewine http://www.stewmac.com/shop/Video,_DVD/Dan_Erlewine's_Repair_Series/Dan_Erlewines_Neck_Resets.html

P.S There also is a good chance you can find out that the neck is epoxied on like many asian guitars and this will make it even more difficult or imposible to get it off without damage.

Good council...Andy, John, and David are the luthier equivalent of the Three Wise Men...by the way John, did I leave my jar of Myrrh at your place?

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http://www.presnallguitars.com

As I said above. Call Washburn with the model and they can tell you what kind of joint it is.
I posted their numbers above.

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Andy Z.
http://www.lazydogguitars.com

>>No offense taken.
I'll call first and find out about the joint.
The only reason for the repair is because I paid $500 for it a 8 years ago, and it's hard to find anything left handed for a decent price, let alone a 12 string<<


Paul-

If that's a 5 dowel joint, and it's my strong suspicion that it is, after you loosen to fingerboard extension, stress the joint by tuning it up real high (or by whatever means), warm it up but good with a heatgun, and move the neck back and forth fairly often. The joint should open, and you'll be able to see the dowels that you will saw through, with a thinkerf pullsaw. DO loosen the strings, of course.

Then research bolt-on conversions.

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https://soundcloud.com/jeffreylsuits/he ... -runnin-13

If you can't find out for sure what kind of neck joint it has I'd recommend removing the fingerboard. The entire fingerboard, not just the part glued to the body. Then you can look and see what kind of neck joint it has. This is supposed to be a learning experience isn't it? I'd recommend removing a couple frets and putting some locating pins in to help with re installing the fingerboard before you remove it.

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I didn't mean to say it, but I meant what I said.
http://www.brackettinstruments.com/

Hey L.P.,
I've got some Frankincense & Myrrh in case you can't find yours.

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Bill Hodge


One does not simply, own enough guitars!

OOOKK. I'm not familiar with Washburns (what vintage are we talking here?) with dowel joints. And glad to have it that way. But I agree there's no point in learning to reset one of those.

That should have been 'tapered" shims in my previous post, not 'taped.'

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Howard Klepper
http://www.klepperguitars.com

When all else fails, clean the shop.