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| How much relief do you use? http://www.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10101&t=22377 |
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| Author: | ClintB [ Thu May 14, 2009 12:04 pm ] |
| Post subject: | How much relief do you use? |
Hi all. I have a steel-string I'm doing the final setup on (it's been strung up and played for over a month) and I've been having a hard time finding info on what the general guidelines for relief are. Cumpiano's and Natelson's book suggest .016" - .031", but that seems a little excessive to me, only because I've heard a few people 'round here throwing in numbers like .003" or .005". So... What do you do? I'd be interested to hear about you're preferences for steel string and classicals, flat pickin' and fingerstyling. Thanks. |
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| Author: | Wes McMillian [ Thu May 14, 2009 12:14 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: How much relief do you use? |
Around .005" to .007" for me, usually. And I'm mostly a flatpicker. |
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| Author: | SteveSmith [ Thu May 14, 2009 12:16 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: How much relief do you use? |
I've recently set one up to .003 and so far I like it. |
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| Author: | Barry Daniels [ Thu May 14, 2009 2:16 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: How much relief do you use? |
.007" is what I shoot for. |
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| Author: | Rick Davis [ Thu May 14, 2009 2:46 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: How much relief do you use? |
The best discussion of relief I've seen is at http://www.bryankimsey.com/setup/neck_relief_1.htm. Bryan did the math rather than going by intuition. Check it out! |
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| Author: | Chris Paulick [ Thu May 14, 2009 3:19 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: How much relief do you use? |
The least amount I can get. I'd have it straight if it wouldn't buzz. So it all depends on your playing style. The harder you play the more the strings vibrate and the chances of fret buzz are more likely to happen although it's related to how low your action is too. If you can leave the neck straight then do. I've also read that you can get a lower action and less relief with a compound radius. |
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| Author: | Kent Chasson [ Thu May 14, 2009 3:51 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: How much relief do you use? |
I usually end up between .006" and .010" at the 6th or 7th fret. Rick, I like that the article distinguishes between action and relief (a lot of players don't get that) but if he is only measuring relief at the 7th fret, the rest of his numbers aren't necessarily very meaningful. The shape of the relief is all important in my book. I don't think in terms of just the number at the 7th fret. I've seen a lot of Gibson's in for setup work recently where the 7th fret measurement was OK but almost all the curve took place in the first 3 frets. Doesn't work so well and would likely produce very different numbers than he has. |
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| Author: | John Mayes [ Thu May 14, 2009 7:02 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: How much relief do you use? |
I use .005 That is what the plek machines setup things for pretty standard as well. Of course it depends on the player, guitar, and style, but .005 is a comfortable number to shoot for. |
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| Author: | dberkowitz [ Fri May 15, 2009 8:47 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: How much relief do you use? |
I'm with Kent on this. Somewhere in the .007-.009" range depending upon scale length and playing style. .005" is too flat, for my tastes at least because it doesn't allow the lattitude that no matter truss rod or graphite, necks and bodies move, and because it is a setup that is only useful for someone with a relatively weak right hand attack. I had a client send one of my guitars to Joe Glaser because they were looking for ridiculously low action. Joe said my fretwork was above the 95th percentile of everything he sees and that the client was being unreasonable. No acoustic guitar I've ever played could I have a relief of .005" without getting some back buzzing unless the player had a very gentle attack. Most of the builders I know are in the range I suggested above. |
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| Author: | ClintB [ Fri May 15, 2009 9:06 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: How much relief do you use? |
Thanks for all the replies. Much appreciated. I've set the guitar at around .008" - .010". That article's an interesting read, Rick. And Kent makes a good point about the shape of the relief being important. Lot's of good stuff for me to think about! How about classicals? Do you tend to shoot for the same range? Or do you give it a little more to help with back buzz (unless you're a flamenco guy and want that sort of thing)? Regards, |
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| Author: | Alexandru Marian [ Fri May 15, 2009 10:10 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: How much relief do you use? |
Depends... myself I make it as flat as possible. The string tension will induce a bit of relief, and I also make the bass part of the saddle taller (about 2mm rise over the whole lenght) I don't think back buzzes are wanted by any guitar player! They are a bit harder to control indeed with a flat FB, but a slightly taller nut fixes it. |
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| Author: | John Mayes [ Fri May 15, 2009 10:41 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: How much relief do you use? |
I always set my relief around .005 (give or take a thou or two), and I've never had a issue with back buzz except when I cut a nut slot too low. I've plek'ed hundreds of McPherson guitars that had .005 relief (and no adjustable truss rod...) and never had an issue with back buzzing. I play hard with my right hand, and don't have issues. I still use a plek a few times a week now (Norman music) and still routinely see that sort of relief work well. Bottom line is there is much more going on than the relief. Don't let anyone tell you that such and such relief is the only way to go or you'll have issues. Just because one guy does it this way doesn't mean that's the only way to do it...as we all well know! Use the numbers as a general guideline and find out what works for you and your guitars. |
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| Author: | Wes McMillian [ Fri May 15, 2009 11:18 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: How much relief do you use? |
I'm with John on this. As I said, I shoot for .005" to .007" (closer to .007") and I'm a pretty heavy handed bluegrasser. I used to buy in to the whole idea that more relief is necessary for bluegrass, but started slowly lowering my relief thanks to Bryan Kimsey and haven't gone back. Like John said, there's a lot more going on than just relief. Not arguing the fact, of course, that you can achieve an excellent playing guitar with more relief. Again, the key is a well set up guitar with more (or less) relief. A poorly set up guitar with less relief, of course, will have problems. |
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| Author: | Chris Paulick [ Sat May 16, 2009 10:33 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: How much relief do you use? |
I think that's where the beauty of using a neck jig might be helpful for setting up a guitar. You level the board as it would be under string tension. That helps getting out the humps that can happen by the torque on the head. |
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| Author: | Wes McMillian [ Sat May 16, 2009 12:32 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: How much relief do you use? |
Even better yet, the angle iron method shown to us by Rick Turner and others. No simulated string tension here, but the real deal. Eliminates any surprises. |
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| Author: | the Padma [ Sat May 16, 2009 12:50 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: How much relief do you use? |
Relief eh? try Rolaids...works fast. Regarding neck relief and how much, well you gotta bear in mind that no two cabbages role down the hill the same way. blessings the Padma |
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| Author: | woody b [ Sat May 16, 2009 12:50 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: How much relief do you use? |
There's alot of good neck relief advice in this thread. I think .006" is a good number, but it's just a number. Assuming everything else is good if it buzzes only on the low frets it needs more relief. If it buzzes only on the higher frets it needs less relief. |
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| Author: | Kent Chasson [ Sat May 16, 2009 12:54 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: How much relief do you use? |
One more thing...ideally the treble side has less relief than the bass. I've been making my necks a bit asymmetrical to control that. |
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| Author: | Chris Paulick [ Sat May 16, 2009 12:56 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: How much relief do you use? |
Wouldn't the high frets be a matter of fallaway?? |
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