Official Luthiers Forum! :: View topic - Tell us your screw ups

Mike O'Melia wrote:

I think Rod is just trying to flush me out of the woods with my latest error.

OH, Please know Mike that this was never my intent at all. Oh and just route that top off Mike. Don't bother trying to save it, the center seams really don't like heat very much and they really open up when working the plate off the head and tail blocks.

Thanks everyone for sharing your delemia's with me/us. Of course I know that things happen and there will be times when we junk a top, a set of sides (i've broken a few sets in my days) scrape a rosette, a neck, fretboard etc... and it's all part of the learning that we need to make us better. Sometimes it just sucks though :lol:

I'm much better now that I've slept it off and am even thinking about a slight change to the rosette to match the back strip better. In the end, it will work out just fine.

Author:	Rod True [ Tue May 12, 2009 12:21 am ]
Post subject:	Tell us your screw ups - major building mistakes
OK, admittedly I need some encouragement right now. I'm pretty mad and upset with myself and I figure it would be better to drown myself with all the rest of YOUR sorrows (along with my most recent) than go throwing stuff all around the shop. Anyway, here's my latest screw up. On this OSJ Lutz/Tassie blackwood guitar I'm building I came to the horrid realization the other night that I laid out my bracing pattern wrong. Like, wrong to the point where my bridge would have been sitting 1.2" closer to the nut (and subsequently the entire rest of the body) than it should have been. I still don't know how it happened. I have jigs for this sort of stuff (to ensure I have the right initial layout) but I can only guess that I used the wrong scale, or mixed two of them together some how (14th fret on one, with bridge location of the other). So, now I needed to take the top off (as I had recently glued it on to the rims) which is never a fun job if one wants to save the wood. So, I worked very carefully with iron and thin blade, working my way around the rim (center seam and plate both glued with fish glue). Of course the most difficult locations are at the center seam over the head and tail blocks (head block more so). Well, after about 1.5 hours of slowly working the top off, I get to the head block. Now, I warm my knife up and slowly work it along the block, and it's turning out fine. As soon as I start getting close to the center seam though, I can see it opening up. And it's to late. The top is free of the block and rim set and both the center seam at the head and tail have opened up (the issue with using fish glue for everything I guess) more than I like and it takes to much pressure to close them up. So, I've written off the beautiful lutz top (I can salvage the rosette mind you) and now have to start with a new top. I don't have one as nice as that one was (a couple very close, but not as nice). So, now I've had a couple of beers and the world ain't looking as dark as it did 1/2 hour ago. It will all work out fine in the end and again another learning curve to chalk up in the books. dang! That was a nice top though. OK, share your pain with me please. I need someone else's mud to swim in.

Author:	Frank Cousins [ Tue May 12, 2009 3:42 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Tell us your screw ups - major building mistakes
The demon that is the router! On number one when routing the binding channel, forgot to stop short of the neck block join and made a nice small semi-circular chanel in the back1 - Luckily as the the wood was Macassar, was ably to patch in a small piece to match and now invisable - compounded the problem by then doing the exact same thing on teh other side.... On number two, the when routing the rosette channel, there was a little movement which caused another 'dent', thankfully this will be hidden by a chnage in the design to feature a 'overhanging' fingerboard extension! The curse of the router!

Author:	David R White [ Tue May 12, 2009 5:49 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Tell us your screw ups - major building mistakes
Hey Rod, you've come to the right place. On my latest I somehow got one of the sides out of position when I joined the top. I didn't notice until the box was complete and the top and back trimmed flush. Which meant I had to replace the entire top, rebrace and ruin a rosette which I spent some time on. It took me about a week before I had any desire to build guitars again. BTW that was the nice cedar top you and I swapped for some time ago.

Author:	martinedwards [ Tue May 12, 2009 6:23 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Tell us your screw ups - major building mistakes
Hah! I NEVER make mistakes!! yeah, right!!! I've done the semicircular router on the neck block too...... the first barn door preamp I cut a hole for with a dremel in a router base I screwed up and the dremel slipped and skittered across the side and then dropped onto the top, taking a chunk out of it and the binding....... it was my own guitar so not a MAJOR disaster like if it was for a customer. I've carved into the trussrod slot when thinning a neck I've drilled the bridge pin holes too close to the saddle slot I've even done a 13th fret inlay marker dot. I'm FAR from perfect and perfectly willing to admit it, and show my results "warts and all" rather than photoshop out the "charactar points"!!

Author:	jordan aceto [ Tue May 12, 2009 6:41 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Tell us your screw ups - major building mistakes
With archtop guitars, violins and manodolins, which have backs and tops parallel to each other, and non-domed linings, i usually run the sides through the thickness sander, still in the mold, after the blocks and linings are in, because it is faster than any human method of trueing up the glueing surfaces. The other day i absentmindedly sent a set of mandolin sides through, without the linings glued in yet. In about .35 seconds i heard a sound like a gunshot, ducked and covered, and slowly rose to survey the damage. The sides had completely exploded, leaving little bits of curly maple shrapnel everywhere. The only good part was, the damage was so severe there was no temptation to try and fix it.

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Author:	jordan aceto [ Tue May 12, 2009 7:34 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Tell us your screw ups - major building mistakes
OOh, and a recent one which involved no "property damage", but was extremely painful(this ought to make you feel better)- My burnisher for sharpening scrapers is a long oval of steel, with a 2" long blunt tang like a file, set in to a wooden handle. I was using it, and the burnisher started coming loose from the handle, so i automatically went to reseat it by stabbing the tool downward much like a psycho with a knife, hoping the impact would drive the pointy tang back into the wood. Instead, the metal part fell out, straight downwards, and i brought my hand, still holding the wooden handle, down at ramming speed, driving the entire tang of the burnisher into the side of my hand, just below the pinky, between the bones and the skin of my palm. For a second i didn't know what had happened and i just looked dumbly at the burnisher hanging in a wiggly kind of way from my hand, until i figured it out, looked away, and yanked the tang out.

Author:	Chris aka Sniggly [ Tue May 12, 2009 7:47 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Tell us your screw ups - major building mistakes
See?? Here's where we need one them cursing emoticons!....One that throws things. Dang Rod. I thinned a back down too far....and the guitar was nearly finished...had to route that off and make a whole new back...see here... 13th fret inlays are my current specialty... Freakin bridge pin holes just WILL NOT stay symetrical. I keep over building my tops. Ohhh...and dropping things....LOVE doing that. Seems that once they 'get away'...they just keep going and going and going.... Rod I feel fer ya my homey.......

Author:	SteveSmith [ Tue May 12, 2009 8:00 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Tell us your screw ups - major building mistakes
So far on my first acoustic (but not my first instrument): Adjustable neck joint upper-bolt too high in the neck block so it interferes with the truss rod adjustment nut. Truss rod had to be installed upside down. Inlayed the double-dot fret markers on the fret board at the 5th instead of the 7th fret. Fortunately I got the 12th right. Drilled the tuner holes free hand on the drill press and one of em got away from me (I know - I do know better). Some cocobolo dust and epoxy with a big tuner washer should fix that one. Cleaning epoxy out of a fret slot with the Dremel; slipped and put a groove in the fret board. More epoxy and ebony dust. The latest one - I sanded through the cocobolo/black fish paper heel cap into the black. That one will have to be redone. Who was it said luthiery is all about being able to fix your mistakes so no one else can see them?

Author:	David Newton [ Tue May 12, 2009 8:01 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Tell us your screw ups - major building mistakes
Say "OUCH" and cry, that's all you can do sometimes. Dropped a screwdriver, tip down, on the top in the center of the lower bout, during final setup of a new guitar. Do you know how long it takes for me to make ONE guitar, then to do that at the last minute? My advice to all mistake-makers? Don't do that. You're welcome.

Author:	Pat Foster [ Tue May 12, 2009 8:19 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Tell us your screw ups - major building mistakes
Well Rod, looks like you're in good company! My most recent was bending an EIR side flopped over so the the grain won't match. It had beautiful grain and color. I had marked it "tail out" to make sure I put it in the sandwich right, but I was in a rush and got it wrong. I tried to rebend it, knowing rw doesn't take to that very well, and it was a mess. So I sent a sample to Allied and they found me a nice side set that matched the back pretty well, but not near as nice as the sides I had. Breathe deep, move on. Pat

Author:	martinedwards [ Tue May 12, 2009 8:29 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Tell us your screw ups - major building mistakes
does using the table saw to level the top of a laminated neck and taking 1/8" off the end of my left middle finger on May 1st count? I COULD post a pic...............

Author:	SteveSmith [ Tue May 12, 2009 8:45 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Tell us your screw ups - major building mistakes
martinedwards wrote: does using the table saw to level the top of a laminated neck and taking 1/8" off the end of my left middle finger on May 1st count? I COULD post a pic............... Ouch! No pics needed, my imagination is vivid enough.

Author:	Bill Hodge [ Tue May 12, 2009 8:50 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Tell us your screw ups - major building mistakes
Well, my biggest screw up, my greatest building mistake probably ever, was to wait till mid life to begin building guitars. I could have been doing it for over 30 years now if I had followed the passion when it first hit me. All this time I've been missing out on the obsession.

Author:	Mark A Thorpe [ Tue May 12, 2009 9:28 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Tell us your screw ups - major building mistakes
I drilled the holes in the bridge and I was installing the bridge pins, tapering the holes making sure I had a nice fit. I looked and had three holes left and only two bridge pins left, I thought I can't believe this package of bridge pins is short one. oops! I drilled seven holes for a six string. It was an easy fix.

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Author:	truckjohn [ Tue May 12, 2009 10:10 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Tell us your screw ups - major building mistakes
Well.... I wouldn't say "Major" per-se.... I had to "shave" the Ditson's back and sides with a straight razor to cut off all the little hairs that are sticking up through the varnish.... Mmmmm dust and dogs.... Tonight, we will see if "Shaving" down the hairs works to cut down on the little pointy things that ruin an otherwise beautiful coat of varnish. I am really tempted to make up a label that says "Hair of the Dog Guitars" that includes a pic of our dog..... as he seems to have left his mark on 2 guitars so far.... Thanks John

Author:	Randolph [ Tue May 12, 2009 10:28 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Tell us your screw ups - major building mistakes
Dang, it sure feels better to have company. I was working on a fretboard inlay - complicated vine-like thing. I spilled CA on my glasses and completely wrecked them. I continued on, no big deal, right? I routed the channel for the whole thing without being able to see. When I finally got new glasses and an optical visor, I just about fell over I decided to fill (embarassingly large gaps) with epoxy. I used black dye from Stew Mac that was more gray than black when it was done. I dug all of that back out and filled with CA and ebony dust. I used garnet paper to sand the ebony dust and had really nice sparkly black and gold filling everywhere - dug it back out, AGAIN! This time I got a nice black CA, ebony dust fill but sanded through several pieces of abalone. I mean, this went on for days! The fretboard was now varied in thickness, so I added some to the back side and built a carriage to hold it so I could sand it back to thickness on a wide belt. I can't believe I just didn't give up and hurl it at the wall Can't believe how much I learned, though.

Author:	crich [ Tue May 12, 2009 10:58 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Tell us your screw ups - major building mistakes
I could write a book.. On a personal growth level; making guitars has taught me to control my anger, well, not completely but a whole bunch better. I admit, I've hurled a few things into the wall. However people that know me can't believe that I have the patience for this,sometimes I even surprise myself. I learned to walk away. I look at the guitars that are built around here and I am in just awe. But I'm not naive, I know behind every beutiful guitar there was an obstacle to overcome. Clinton

Author:	Mike OMelia [ Tue May 12, 2009 11:52 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Tell us your screw ups - major building mistakes
I think Rod is just trying to flush me out of the woods with my latest error. One reason you have not been hearing about the harp guitar is because I discovered a fatal assembly error. The top is too far north. I forgot to use alignment holes with the neck block. I have WAY too much invested to let this one die in a dusty corner. So, I too am lifting the top off. Not sure how (though I have been given good ideas). Actualy, I was NEVER happy with the top. Too deadish. Beautiful color and all, but I want it to sound good. Rosettes sucked too. Sometimes, you just need to move on to another project and let your mind rest on the current problem. I am almost looking forward now to doing surgery on it. Mike

Author:	James Orr [ Tue May 12, 2009 12:28 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Tell us your screw ups - major building mistakes
This past weekend, in the midst of drawing and scaling, drawing and scaling, the dimensions of my headstock got off. I removed too much from the sides of the headstock without realizing it until this morning when I held my paper copy up to it, suspecting something was off.

Author:	Rod True [ Tue May 12, 2009 12:56 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Tell us your screw ups - major building mistakes
Mike O'Melia wrote: I think Rod is just trying to flush me out of the woods with my latest error. OH, Please know Mike that this was never my intent at all. Oh and just route that top off Mike. Don't bother trying to save it, the center seams really don't like heat very much and they really open up when working the plate off the head and tail blocks. Thanks everyone for sharing your delemia's with me/us. Of course I know that things happen and there will be times when we junk a top, a set of sides (i've broken a few sets in my days) scrape a rosette, a neck, fretboard etc... and it's all part of the learning that we need to make us better. Sometimes it just sucks though I'm much better now that I've slept it off and am even thinking about a slight change to the rosette to match the back strip better. In the end, it will work out just fine.

Author:	walnut47 [ Tue May 12, 2009 2:04 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Tell us your screw ups - major building mistakes
Well, I'd just like to thank Hesh for his hide glue tutorial because I've had several opportunities to learn how easy it is to unglue Like when I glued braces on a D-sized back that were almost an inch too short The worst was this past Sunday night. I had been doing some pearl inlay and whiled waiting for glue to dry before sanding, I decided to sharpen a chisel. I got it really good and sharp, I mean effortlessly shaving hairs off my arm. I went back and sanded down the pearl - a paua spiral on ebony headstock overlay. It looked pretty nice and decided to call it a day. But one more thing, that chisel doesn't have a cover for the tip, I'll just stick in this wine cork here. Well, there was a little slip that cost me a trip to the ER and 6 stitches on my left middle finger. The ER doc who sewed me up is a woodworker who regaled with a few horror stories while he was doing the sewing; like the guy who breathed in so much epoxy fumes that his lungs actually got sealed to where he could hardly breathe at all. Like I really needed to hear that. Walter

Author:	Mike OMelia [ Tue May 12, 2009 4:32 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Tell us your screw ups - major building mistakes
I know Rod... just looking for a good excuse to show off my error. Feel much better about it now. And there IS no saving the top. Also, hope you did not think I was serious (about flushing me out) Mike Rod True wrote: Mike O'Melia wrote: I think Rod is just trying to flush me out of the woods with my latest error. OH, Please know Mike that this was never my intent at all. Oh and just route that top off Mike. Don't bother trying to save it, the center seams really don't like heat very much and they really open up when working the plate off the head and tail blocks. Thanks everyone for sharing your delemia's with me/us. Of course I know that things happen and there will be times when we junk a top, a set of sides (i've broken a few sets in my days) scrape a rosette, a neck, fretboard etc... and it's all part of the learning that we need to make us better. Sometimes it just sucks though I'm much better now that I've slept it off and am even thinking about a slight change to the rosette to match the back strip better. In the end, it will work out just fine.

Author:	Jody [ Tue May 12, 2009 7:28 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Tell us your screw ups - major building mistakes
let's see , where do I begin ?oh your talking dumb mistakes, how about thicknessing a top to final thickness before installing the rosette or cutting the sound hole( I may have saved that one anyways ).I am realy not sure howthis happened as I know the dangers of a router bit creeping, so I had it plenty tight . but i was cutting a channel for my decorative back strip, with my porter cable router and down cutting end mill, by the time i got to the end of the run the bit had cut through the back. I guess it was a combination of the pulling force of the down cut, and perhaps the new bit still had some oil on it from manufacture... well i guess that one gets up-graded to a three piece back! yeah that baby is gonna cost someone extra! what with all the extra trouble of making it s three piece , and all that . live and learn.. hopefully !!! jody

Author:	Jim_H [ Tue May 12, 2009 9:12 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Tell us your screw ups - major building mistakes
Using the wrong tool for the job, and doing it poorly to boot. This is the result! Was trying to take a shortcut using the drum sander on the drill press to sand back the back overhang... I wasn't paying attention.. had on crappy, dust covered classes, and was wearing gloves and ear protection. I didn't realize I was grinding away the sides of the guitar side on the top of the bit. It doesn't show there, but it actually went all the way through. I almost threw the whole thing away in disgust... then I decided heck.. there is still a lot of knowledge to be gained building this thing (and that's why I was building it!).. so I patched it up and pressed on.

Author:	Terence Kennedy [ Tue May 12, 2009 10:17 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Tell us your screw ups - major building mistakes
Well early on the usual, two left sides out of the bending machine, position markers on the wrong side of the fretboard, tone bars on the wrong side of the X once, and later on forgetting to stop at the end graft and back strip when routing for bindings with mitered purflings. One thing I ALWAYS seem to forget is to drill a little hole in the center line of the top just north of the top transverse brace so I know where to stop routing the mortise for the bolt on fretboard tenon.