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Favourite B&S wood for classical tone
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Author:  Steve Davis [ Tue May 05, 2009 12:56 pm ]
Post subject:  Favourite B&S wood for classical tone
I have built two EIR Englemann guitars.Liked them both but want to try something different. The next will be Euro & ??????
Wondered what would be favourite amongst you guys . It will be a classical and Ím more interested in tone than anything else
Thanks
Author:  J Jones [ Tue May 05, 2009 1:14 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Favourite B&S wood for classical tone
most classical players wont look at stuff that isn't EIR MadRose or BRW and maybe Coco. at least, this is true of my friend who is studying guitar at a conservatory, but i like maple, finding that after 5 or so guitars i yearn to play and hear somthing other than IRW and WRC/Spruce. infact, two of the most memorable classical guitars i have heard were made from maple and cypress.

the cypress guitar was a small bodied torres that someone put up on youtube (it was quie amazing really)

the maple was this one http://www.dreamguitars.com/preowned/gutmeier/gutmeier_b_classical_crossover/gutmeier_b_2000.php just listening to it, it amazed me, dont know why though.... (i realise that the DG sound clips are not the best thing to go on)


and my first build was a spruce maple classical, so i have a soft spot for it. :D , if not go for a different rosewood.

anyways, hope that helps

Jonny
Author:  Alain Moisan [ Tue May 05, 2009 2:52 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Favourite B&S wood for classical tone
I've had great success with ovengkol. Great sound, very 'classical' style.

And awesome to look at!
Author:  Mike Collins [ Tue May 05, 2009 4:19 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Favourite B&S wood for classical tone
Look up the Drake Trafalgen(sp.)
interview in the G.A.L. a few years back and he says that Pepe Romero liked his Cypress guitars MORE than the Rosewood ones !
They were louder and more sweet !!

Back & Sides do NOT make the guitars tone as much as the top does
Thickness of the top (and other parts )
Weight of all the pieces !
Bracing and of course the most important criteria- LUCK !!

Mc
Author:  Todd Rose [ Tue May 05, 2009 9:31 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Favourite B&S wood for classical tone
Speaking of Dake Traphagen, one of the woods he likes is palo escrito (Dalbergia palescrito), a rosewood from Mexico. When I was first considering using it, I emailed him and he had this to say about it (these are excerpts from his comments):

"I think Palo Escrito is great wood. It is light weight, stiff, and very resonant... it usually makes powerful, lively instruments..."

Kenny Hill commented that palo escrito and Honduran rosewood are very similar tonally (with positive comments about both). Several others have also commented enthusiastically on this wood - including, if I recall, Mike Collins - right, Mike?

I have not yet built my first classical (looking forward to it, though!). I am presently working on two steel string instruments with palo escrito. It certainly is an impressive wood to handle. It feels and rings like a dense rosewood, but it's much lighter weight.

Just a suggestion I thought I'd throw out there...
Author:  douglas ingram [ Tue May 05, 2009 10:47 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Favourite B&S wood for classical tone
EIR/Spruce would be standard, it works and its what people expect.

Spruce/maple gets my vote. The world needs more spruce/maple classical guitars!

Spruce/cypress is receiving a lot of favour from good builders.

If tone is your main concern, just make sure that you get a good top and then do everything that you can to make it work to its potential.
Author:  Mike Mahar [ Wed May 06, 2009 7:25 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Favourite B&S wood for classical tone
Al Carruth is using Osage Orange and they sound great. Osage is almost identical to Brazilian Rosewood in its physical and acoustical properties. The only down side is the color. It starts out looking like the drink mix Tang and then slowly darkens until it looks like Graham cracker. It won't take a stain either.

Color aside, Al hasn't had any trouble selling his osage guitars since they sound so good. I guess it's the price you pay for not paying the price for Brazilian.
Author:  Alexandru Marian [ Wed May 06, 2009 7:34 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Favourite B&S wood for classical tone
Based on what you asked (best tone, something other than Indian RW) then you need to try some of the more expensive rosewoods such as Madagascar, Honduras, Blackwood...
Or, if you do not mind a white guitar, cypress, or maple. White woods do make for a different sounding guitar when compared to the dense exotic stuff. I am really in love with cypress. I've made one with a light Italian spruce and it's very enjoyable: airy, sweet and light tone. Maple would be more easily accepted in the "community" though, if you care about that.
Author:  Mike Collins [ Wed May 06, 2009 12:44 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Favourite B&S wood for classical tone
Yes Todd Palo Escrito I like muy mucho !!
I think Hibdon now has some listed on their site.

I got all of my sets from Lmii-they were great sets!

If I were limited to one wood only for B & S it would be __________

Fill in the blank guys !!
;)

Mc
Author:  Jim Kirby [ Wed May 06, 2009 5:02 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Favourite B&S wood for classical tone
I have a classical in the works with Palo Escrito B&S also. I really like the tactile qualities of the wood and the initial working qualities. Final results will unfortunately be delayed due to excess busy-ness in the real job. :cry:

My sets are also from LMI. They sometimes seem to have a spotty supply, and I've always wondered if there is some secret Mexican source for the wood.
Author:  Alan Carruth [ Wed May 06, 2009 6:04 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Favourite B&S wood for classical tone
I've had good results with Cedar or Redwood paired with either Walnut or Mahogany. I think the lower damping of these tops helps make up for the higher damping of the B&S. I DON'T like Red Spruce with either mahogany or walnut for a classical. YMMV

There are a lot of woods in the 'rosewood' class that will make a good classical. I tend to lump all of the high density/low damping woods together, as they work similarly. Not all of them are rosewods, of course: Osage isn't, nor is Morado. The latter is often mis-named as a rosewood, and it looks the part. If you can find a nice quartered set it would make a good classical. But so would a couple of dozen other woods.
Author:  Jim Kirby [ Wed May 06, 2009 6:36 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Favourite B&S wood for classical tone
Alan Carruth wrote:
I've had good results with Cedar or Redwood paired with either Walnut or Mahogany. I think the lower damping of these tops helps make up for the higher damping of the B&S. I DON'T like Red Spruce with either mahogany or walnut for a classical. YMMV



My favorite guitar that I've had in my hands was cedar and walnut - and it was a factory guitar, I'm embarrassed to say. Really stellar.
Author:  David LaPlante [ Wed May 06, 2009 7:36 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Favourite B&S wood for classical tone
At this point for me, other than the rosewoods (Br & E.I.) it would be Spanish Cypress.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wz6MoEzMCqU
Author:  Steve Davis [ Thu May 07, 2009 10:49 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Favourite B&S wood for classical tone
My sets are also from LMI. They sometimes seem to have a spotty supply, and I've always wondered if there is some secret Mexican source for the wood.[/quote]

I was wonderimg about that too as the sets from Hibdon are alot pricier.....is it the same wood or just a quality thing?
Author:  Todd Rose [ Thu May 07, 2009 11:40 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Favourite B&S wood for classical tone
I checked out the sets at Hibdon. They certainly look like palo escrito, but they have an interesting grain pattern, which, I'm sure, is why they are priced as they are. Palo escrito has a lot of variation in grain pattern. You might get something pretty interesting from LMI as well.
Author:  walnut47 [ Thu May 07, 2009 12:58 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Favourite B&S wood for classical tone
I'm curious about the Osage Orange. How is it to plane and bend? Who sells it?

I like the idea of using local/regional woods.
Thanks,
Walter
Author:  Todd Rose [ Thu May 07, 2009 1:58 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Favourite B&S wood for classical tone
Bob at RC Tonewoods sometimes has osage orange B&S sets.
Author:  walnut47 [ Fri May 08, 2009 9:48 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Favourite B&S wood for classical tone
Quote:
Bob at RC Tonewoods sometimes has osage orange B&S sets.


Thanks Todd. I'm checking them out.
Walter
Author:  Alan Carruth [ Fri May 08, 2009 2:20 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Favourite B&S wood for classical tone
Gilmer in St. Louis has had Osage from time to time.

Osage bends pretty well, although you do have to lean on it. Don't over heat it, as it will discolor.

It's a real pain to plane; it tends to have interlocked grain, and is chippy. If you are working with hand tools, as I do, plan on spending some time with a scraper or sanding block after you get through with a really sharp and well set up plane. Also; DO scribe the sides before you rout the binding rabbets.
Author:  dsgoen [ Fri May 08, 2009 3:32 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Favourite B&S wood for classical tone
Hibdon is in St. Louis. I think Gilmer is in Oregon.

I did see some osage orange during my last visit to Hibdon's showroom, about a month ago.
Author:  Alan Carruth [ Sat May 09, 2009 3:06 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Favourite B&S wood for classical tone
Whoops! Thanks for the correction.
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