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| inside mold http://www.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10101&t=22163 |
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| Author: | Tai Fu [ Tue Apr 28, 2009 1:55 am ] |
| Post subject: | inside mold |
For smaller instruments I have seen some people use an inside mold of the instrument with holes cut in them for clamps. I wonder has anyone used an inside mold for guitars (removing them before closing the box of course)? |
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| Author: | Ken McKay [ Tue Apr 28, 2009 2:45 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: inside mold |
Yes, I use and inside mold to build OM shaped guitars. I started as a violinmaker. I am not sure there is an advantage though. What questions do you have? |
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| Author: | Tai Fu [ Tue Apr 28, 2009 3:45 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: inside mold |
Ken McKay wrote: Yes, I use and inside mold to build OM shaped guitars. I started as a violinmaker. I am not sure there is an advantage though. What questions do you have? Actually I have been thinking of constructing a violin from scratch but I am not sure if they are any harder than building a guitar from scratch. Does most violin maker build from a plan of some sort or do they reverse engineer an existing violin? |
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| Author: | jordan aceto [ Tue Apr 28, 2009 7:20 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: inside mold |
A plan is probably a good idea, many people use these http://www.orpheusmusicshop.com/category-9.html full size posters of famous violins to make plans and forms from. Another choice is here http://www.guitarplans.co.uk/violinplans.htm for a nice set of detailed plans, also the book "the art of violin making" kicks butt if you feel like dropping a bunch of money on a book, its worth it. If you search around here http://www.maestronet.com/forum/index.p ... howforum=4 you may find recommendations on what poster people like to build and consider a good first choice. Here http://www.darntonviolins.com/violinmaking.php is a great site with lots of pictures, i like to dig through it every once in a while just to get some inspiration. There are other resources out there, but that should be a good start. edit: if you think guitar makers are a fussy bunch, wait till you get to know some violin tweakers! |
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| Author: | Dave Stewart [ Tue Apr 28, 2009 10:15 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: inside mold |
A worthwhile book is Violin Making Step by Step by Henry Strobel, which also contains all patterns/templates. Not necessarily harder but different... finicky, mostly handtool work, lots of handcarving.... quite satisfying ('till you get to trying to play the dang thing!) |
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| Author: | bluescreek [ Tue Apr 28, 2009 7:03 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: inside mold |
The one drawback to an inside mold is that you can't lock the neck block. The purpose of the mold is to hold the symmetry and neck block in position until the top and back are on. That said , you can do what you like. Once you perfect your technique. |
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| Author: | jordan aceto [ Tue Apr 28, 2009 7:26 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: inside mold |
bluescreek wrote: The one drawback to an inside mold is that you can't lock the neck block I don't quite understand what you mean by lock the neck block, can you explain? |
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| Author: | woody b [ Tue Apr 28, 2009 9:11 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: inside mold |
jordan aceto wrote: bluescreek wrote: The one drawback to an inside mold is that you can't lock the neck block I don't quite understand what you mean by lock the neck block, can you explain? I think I can explain. On an instrument as big as a guitar the rim is a little......floopy until the top and back are glued on. This could easily allow the neck block to end up at a bad angle since there's no mold holding it while you're closing the box. Violins are alot of work. There's no bracing to play with for tone (except the bass bar, and sound post) so carving, and graduating the plates is how you give it it's voice. An inside mold works good because of the size. There's also 2 blocks on each side, as well as the endblocks. My Great Grandfather built Violins, and I've built a couple. They were very loud, but didn't have the tone of one I've got that he built in the 1920's. I've got alot of his old tools, including a mold made of solid Oak, and a broken Coke bottle he used to carve the plates. I use an old drawknife of his carving guitar necks. |
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| Author: | Ken McKay [ Wed Apr 29, 2009 12:16 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: inside mold |
John, I am not trying to convince anyone to use an inside mold but I don't have trouble with alignment because my mold allows me dissemble it in parts. First the top sandwich comes off and I glue in the linings then glue on the top. Next I remove the back part of my mold and glue the back linings and then collaps the mold and remove it. My mold is also arched to the exact radius of the finished garland so I can trim the ribs without a template. It all works fine, but again I don't want to convince anyone. The violin garland can be removed from a one piece mold if the blocks cutouts are cut at greater than 90 degrees allowing the rib structure to bend a little while a little bit at a time is removed. |
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| Author: | jordan aceto [ Wed Apr 29, 2009 6:08 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: inside mold |
woody b wrote: An inside mold works good because of the size. But what about cellos and basses! Gotcha! Kens collapsing mold is one cool solution for big instruments, some other people install the linings to just one surface, then glue on just the top(or back), release the blocks, slide the rims off the form, line the other side and then glue the back(or top) on. It is kind of like the classical guys who work without a mold at all, it is not what i am comfortable with, but people make great instruments that way. One thing i will give you is that violin type instruments frequently have more symmetry/odd outline issues (resulting from the use of inside molds)than we want in guitars. Usually this is considered part of a nice violins charm. along with unmatching F holes, funky purfling, tool marks and an uneven scroll. Stuff like that just looks like a amatuer work on a guitar, but it is sometimes what gives a violin character. |
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| Author: | Ken McKay [ Thu Apr 30, 2009 8:56 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: inside mold |
Jordan you are right about that. I made this double bass without a mold just for that reason. No mold at all, just Faux back. |
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| Author: | Ken McKay [ Thu Apr 30, 2009 8:58 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: inside mold |
working without a mold is difficult and yet liberating. |
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| Author: | Ken McKay [ Thu Apr 30, 2009 9:02 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: inside mold |
Here it is today. I need to carve the scroll and make the fingerboard. And the big job of finishing and antiquing the finish. |
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