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Doolin Adjustable Neck Strap Button
http://www.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10101&t=22124		 Page 1 of 2
Author:  Chris Paulick [ Sat Apr 25, 2009 11:33 am ]
Post subject:  Doolin Adjustable Neck Strap Button
Here is a strap button I came up with for the neck. This is the prototype and is a bit tore up as it wasn't the original idea I had of making it. It will also not be threaded directly into the neck but will have a 5/16" dia. piece of rod tapped for the stud of the button and the bushing will be glued into the neck. I showed this to Mike Doolin and he suggested doing the bushing and I have to agree that would make for a much better attachment.
It was made with a Strap Button from StewMac. I just drilled and tapped it out for a 12-24 thread and screwed in the stud and then cut the head off the gold wood screw that came with the button and CA glued them in place. I suppose if you can find a 6-32 gold oval head machine screw then you could tap the stud to accept it too. The 12 size is just enough diameter to allow the allen wrench access to adjust the neck angle and small enough dia. to tap into the button.
Also the nitro finish has not had it's finale leveling and buffing yet. I have a week of drying left on the neck.
Author:  Brad Way [ Sat Apr 25, 2009 4:39 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Doolin Adjustable Neck Strap Button
Chris...are you using an adjustable neck that has the adjustment nut on the neck heel behind the strap button?
Author:  Chris Paulick [ Sat Apr 25, 2009 5:09 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Doolin Adjustable Neck Strap Button
Yes, but it's not an adjustment nut. There is a barrel nut in the neck block and a capture bolt in the heel.
Maybe this picture will explain it. The bolt and barrel nut are obviously in the head block.
Author:  Brad Way [ Sat Apr 25, 2009 6:59 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Doolin Adjustable Neck Strap Button
Interesting. What was your reason for changing?
Author:  KiwiCraig [ Sat Apr 25, 2009 7:40 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Doolin Adjustable Neck Strap Button
G'day Chris,

With the help from some members of the ANZLF and particularly Lillian ,I designed this strap pin adjuster last year.In fact , I've been using it as my Australian avatar for quite a few months now .Here's a link to the thread http://www.anzlf.com/viewtopic.php?t=10 ... c+opinions

It uses a 6 mm. stainless steel hex socket head screw as the adjuster. This is mounted into 1/2" brass socket/ ferrule.

My system allows the adjuster to be either a flush mount or have it as a strap pin/adjuster

From this :

Attachment:
MkFIVEno srap pin1.jpg


To this :By adding a brass collar to the screw shaft . I turned the wooden 'knob' on my vertical lathe ( drillpress :D )Match your binding or whatever

Attachment:
MARKSEVERN1.jpg


The Ferrule /Socket was simply made from drilling out some 1/2 " brass dowel although a lathe would do the job easier

Attachment:
HEEL11.jpg


My captured screw system simply employs two nuts ( jammed) . These can obviously be adjusted to take out any wear or play in
the captured system .

Attachment:
HEEL31.jpg
Author:  Brad Way [ Sat Apr 25, 2009 8:11 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Doolin Adjustable Neck Strap Button
Craig....very nice job. Can you show me what the wood strap button looks like taken off the screw? Thanks.
Author:  KiwiCraig [ Sat Apr 25, 2009 8:53 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Doolin Adjustable Neck Strap Button
Brad Way wrote:
Craig....very nice job. Can you show me what the wood strap button looks like taken off the screw? Thanks.


Cheers Brad. I have no pictures of a wooden one , but here's one I made from brass .

Attachment:
MkSIX1.jpg


Easy enough to make. As I said , I don't have a lathe, so turn these on my drill press.I've also made them out of Ebony , Rosewood etc.
Author:  SteveSmith [ Sat Apr 25, 2009 9:09 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Doolin Adjustable Neck Strap Button
Good ideas both and very cool. My current, and first, has the original Doolin type adjustment from the inside. The next one will be from the outside using the strap button to hide it. Thanks for sharing!
Author:  Brad Way [ Sat Apr 25, 2009 9:15 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Doolin Adjustable Neck Strap Button
KiwiCraig wrote:
Brad Way wrote:
Craig....very nice job. Can you show me what the wood strap button looks like taken off the screw? Thanks.


Cheers Brad. I have no pictures of a wooden one , but here's one I made from brass .

Attachment:
MkSIX1.jpg


Easy enough to make. As I said , I don't have a lathe, so turn these on my drill press.I've also made them out of Ebony , Rosewood etc.


Thanks Craig...that is just what I was looking for. I am currently working on a guitar with an adjustable neck and was thinking about an adjustment bolt from the outside. Your method is a great way to do it.
Author:  SteveSmith [ Sun Apr 26, 2009 5:47 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Doolin Adjustable Neck Strap Button
Are you guys using the wavy washer on the top bolt with the head captured in the neck block to act as a locking washer? What about some way to lock the bottom bolt? Do you guys find they're not necessary? I would think something would be needed to keep the bolt from backing out.
Author:  KiwiCraig [ Sun Apr 26, 2009 7:55 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Doolin Adjustable Neck Strap Button
Steve, with my captured screw system ,the tightened jam nuts provide enough friction to prevent this.I have them firm enough for a smooth adjustment , but with no play. The benefit of the jam nuts is they can always be re adjusted should there ever be any wear or compression in the captured system. You'll also note that all the components can be easily replaced , but as most are stainless , it's probably not a concern.

I've not had a problem with the top bolt undoing after being tightened , so haven't bothered with a 'wavy' washer .
Author:  Chris Paulick [ Sun Apr 26, 2009 9:41 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Doolin Adjustable Neck Strap Button
Steve I have wavy washer in the heel capture bolt also. It tight enough nto turn that I don't see it ever moving exspecially when under stress of the string pull. If it were a problem Mike Doolin woud have said so. Like I said mine will also have a bushing for the button to screw into. I origally was going to just tap the tele string ferrule that dressed up the hole but it only provides about 2 threads which is why Mike suggested just making a bushing. The reason I went modifying the strap button is I wanted gold hardware and if you check on getting something gold plated like a 12-24 oval head machine screw it's going to cost about $40 to have someone plate it. I had the oval head stainless 12-24 but did't care for the look of it so that's why I used the head from the gold screw. It's a looks thing in this case. I don't plan on having the strap button taken off except for the adjustment times so there is no reason to have the brass bushing plated. Chrome hardware would have simplified the button as I could have just used the oval head stainless screw but I still wasn't thrilled with the larger phillips slot in it. I have some buttons coming from LMI that are a different design so I'm waiting to see how they will adapt too.
The one thing I like about the Doolin system is that it only has 3 different parts to it. Well 5 nif you count the brass dowels and setscrews use to center aline the neck.
Author:  Chris Paulick [ Sun Apr 26, 2009 9:46 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Doolin Adjustable Neck Strap Button
Brad Way wrote:
Interesting. What was your reason for changing?

That's the way Mike Doolin has been doing it for awhile now and it is so you can adjust the neck angle from outside and not from the inside. That is what you are asking isn't it?
Author:  SteveSmith [ Sun Apr 26, 2009 11:30 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Doolin Adjustable Neck Strap Button
You guys are giving me some good ideas! Instead of a jam nut I might try a nylon-locking (Nyloc) nut for the bottom bolt, maybe over a wavy washer. Maybe I could use the same idea for the top bolt. Hmmmmm. After putting the neck on and off about 20 times I can say the wavy washers accomplish the locking function real well.
Author:  Chris Paulick [ Sun Apr 26, 2009 1:20 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Doolin Adjustable Neck Strap Button
For anyone who doesn't know about the Doolin neck joint here is a link to another parallel discussion that I do a quick explaination of it.
http://www.mimf.com/cgi-bin/WebX?128@12 ... @.2cb69e81
Author:  Brad Way [ Sun Apr 26, 2009 2:10 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Doolin Adjustable Neck Strap Button
Chris Paulick wrote:
Brad Way wrote:
Interesting. What was your reason for changing?

That's the way Mike Doolin has been doing it for awhile now and it is so you can adjust the neck angle from outside and not from the inside. That is what you are asking isn't it?


Chris...how are you dealing with the fretboard extension with the adjustable neck?
Author:  Chris Paulick [ Sun Apr 26, 2009 2:24 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Doolin Adjustable Neck Strap Button
Four pieces of 5/16" X 1/8" of CF inset into the neck 1 1/2" and epoxied to into the neck and the 2 next to the tenon are epoxied to the side and the fretboard is epoxied on. I taper the ends so I didn't have to cut through the UTB. See the above photo. Some run 2 of the CF through the whole neck. Some use 2 hollow 1/4" rods half in the neck and half in the bottom of the board. The cool thing about the tubes is you can put in fiber optic side dots in the board as per Mark Swanson.
Author:  SteveSmith [ Sun Apr 26, 2009 4:23 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Doolin Adjustable Neck Strap Button
I'm using two 1/4 inch OD CF tubes running almost the full length of the neck on either side of the truss rod.
Author:  Chris Paulick [ Sun Apr 26, 2009 4:25 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Doolin Adjustable Neck Strap Button
Steve, do you route 1/2 into the FB and 1/2 into the neck like Mark Swanson does?
Author:  Brad Way [ Sun Apr 26, 2009 5:42 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Doolin Adjustable Neck Strap Button
Chris Paulick wrote:
Four pieces of 5/16" X 1/8" of CF inset into the neck 1 1/2" and epoxied to into the neck and the 2 next to the tenon are epoxied to the side and the fretboard is epoxied on. I taper the ends so I didn't have to cut through the UTB. See the above photo. Some run 2 of the CF through the whole neck. Some use 2 hollow 1/4" rods half in the neck and half in the bottom of the board. The cool thing about the tubes is you can put in fiber optic side dots in the board as per Mark Swanson.


Do you route a pocket to recess the fret board extension into the top (similar to Taylor) or does the fingerboard sit on the top side of the top? Do you have any pics?
Author:  SteveSmith [ Sun Apr 26, 2009 6:24 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Doolin Adjustable Neck Strap Button
Chris Paulick wrote:
Steve, do you route 1/2 into the FB and 1/2 into the neck like Mark Swanson does?


Yes. A side benefit is it makes it easy to keep the fretboard in position when gluing - of course I've only done it once.

My fretboard is floating above the top about 1/16". I've routed my top to accept the CF rods and the interface between the top and the neck block is an area I definitely will be looking to improve next time. I think this guitar will survive ok over the long term but I'm not positive .
Author:  Chris Paulick [ Sun Apr 26, 2009 6:41 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Doolin Adjustable Neck Strap Button
The tongue sits flat on the top and will rise off the top some when ajusted if need be. there is a recess in the neck block at the heel shape that the heel moves into.

Here's the parts for a Doolin Adjustable Neck Joint. You will have 2 1/4" knock down furniture bolts, 2 wavy washers, 2 barrel bolts, 2 5/16" set screws (the same 5/32 hex head) which are used to adjust the yawl of the neck, aline the center line and 2 1/4"X 1/4" brass plugs(the bearings for the set screws).
Author:  Chris Paulick [ Sun Apr 26, 2009 6:52 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Doolin Adjustable Neck Strap Button
The top captured bolt, locking bolt is inline with the yawl adjustment set screw bolts which are threaded into the tapped neck block. And the locking bolt has the wavy washer placed between the bolt head and the neck block cap that is glued on after the bolt is installed or in other words captured. There is also a barrel nut captured behind the lower hole in the mortise which will accept the neck angle adjustment bolt which is captured in the heel. The locking bolt and the 2 yawl bolts are inline and act as a pivot point which allows for the neck to be adjusted by the bottom bolt without loosen the top locking bolt . Thus no need to ge into the guitar and loosen the strings to adjust. Slots cut to clear the CF rods. Notice the 1/8" recess for the heel also
Author:  Chris Paulick [ Sun Apr 26, 2009 7:04 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Doolin Adjustable Neck Strap Button
At the top you have a barrel nut in the tenon that will accept the locking bolt and to each side is the brass plugs or yawl adjustment bearings. Below is the neck angle adjustment bolt that is captured into the heel and will tread into the captured barrel nut in the neck block. The neck adjustment bolt is installed by first drilling a 1/4" through hole and then drilling out a 5/8" hole to the depth of the tenon then putting in the wavy washer the bolt and plugging it with a 5/8" maple dowel that's obviously glued in place. Care has to be taken not to over set the plug so that the bolt won't turn.
Author:  Chris Paulick [ Sun Apr 26, 2009 7:06 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Doolin Adjustable Neck Strap Button
Once the locking bolt and yawl screws are set then the neck angle is adjusted from the outside with a 5/32" allen wrench.
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