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You Tube videos and advice to beginners.
http://www.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10101&t=22099		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  Dave Higham [ Thu Apr 23, 2009 10:54 am ]
Post subject:  You Tube videos and advice to beginners.
In another post, Corkey said he learned more at an ASIA symposium than he had in all the reading and watching You Tube videos he'd done.

There are more and more 'luthery' videos on You Tube and it has to be said that the quality is variable (in other words, some of them are a load of c**p). But how is the beginner to know that? If you think the guy is talking out of his sphincter you can add a comment, but who is the beginner going to believe? The guy who went to the trouble of making the video or the one who tried to shoot him down? You want to see people doing stupid and dangerous things? Go to You Tube!

Then you get the problem in reverse. Todd made a couple of excellent side-bending videos. Then some guy came along insisting that you couldn't possibly bend sides correctly unless you had heated solid aluminium bending forms and inferring that you must have zero spring-back. Perhaps he'd seen the Taylor videos and thought that was the only way to do it, but he came on like an authority on the subject.

So my advice to beginners is, read the Forums (there are at least 6 or 7 excellent forums now) and ask questions (there are no dumb questions). Read the books, but ask which ones to read on the forums (some things in some books are well out of date). Watch the You Tube videos by all means but, unless you know the reputations of the people who made them, take them with a pinch of salt. You can always ask here about the videos too. It's true that the easiest way to understand how to do something is to watch it being done... correctly!
Author:  David Newton [ Thu Apr 23, 2009 11:13 am ]
Post subject:  Re: You Tube videos and advice to beginners.
I saw that video, and the lame comments.

Just the peek at Todd's legs were all the proof I need that he knows what he is doing. [:Y:]
Author:  Alexandru Marian [ Thu Apr 23, 2009 11:26 am ]
Post subject:  Re: You Tube videos and advice to beginners.
What is the link? I'll teach them a few... :x
Author:  Chris Paulick [ Fri Apr 24, 2009 6:41 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: You Tube videos and advice to beginners.
The maker of the video can delete comments if they are offensive or inaccurate or for whatever reason he wants, it's his channel. I have deleted one,"Are you stupid or what?" was the comment. I guess the answer is what, since I don't think I'm stupid(A bad speller, OLF needs a spell checker) but I guess that could be debatable. :roll: If you have a problem about something in some ones video or a question you can email them through YouTube also. I get people asking me questions from time to time.
If you see something that you think is unsafe then email them and say what you think but be respectful. I had Someone tell me about a unsafe act in one of mine with not having a gaurd on a certain tool that I knew I should have had but never got around to doing, you know what I mean? Well, I put a guard on it and made a quick sled and reshot the 10 second part and edited it.
Author:  Chris Paulick [ Fri Apr 24, 2009 7:14 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: You Tube videos and advice to beginners.
The one reason I post my youtubes here is I know I'll get some feed back. Maybe some good tips I can learn from. We need more people here making videos. I don't get why more don't. They are easy to make if you have a digital camera , tripod and a DSL or faster connection that's all you need, Windows comes with a movie maker editing program that I use.
Author:  Laurent Brondel [ Fri Apr 24, 2009 7:24 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: You Tube videos and advice to beginners.
Wise words Dave. The same is valid for the forums.
Author:  Mike Mahar [ Sat Apr 25, 2009 8:08 am ]
Post subject:  Re: You Tube videos and advice to beginners.
There are many ways to learn. You can attach yourself to a master and take everything they say a gospel until you get enough experience to know what is critical to making a working instrument and what is just one person's take on it. The other option is to read and listen and watch from as many sources as you can and try to extract the gems from the junk.

I prefer to use the second method but it takes a little while to recognize what is good and what is not. More importantly, you have to learn to tell that some things must be done a certain way to be correct while most things can vary quite a bit and still be good.

So I guess the general advice is to take everything you learn with an open mind and try to integrate it into an overall understanding of the craft. When an expert says that they can hear the difference between a dovetail neck and a bolt on, for example, you need to know that there are other experts who claim that there is no difference. This is not an exact science and there are many paths.

Do YouTube videos offer a special challenge? I don't think so. Suppose you visited dozens of shops and saw demonstrations on many different techniques. Would anyone warn you off of this exercise because some of the luthiers in those shops didn't have the chops they may have led you to believe? I think most people would say that any chance to learn is an opportunity that shouldn't be passed up.

Just remember that there is no absolute right way to do almost every step in the process. In fact, I can think of only two things that must be done correctly. One is the fret spacing and saddle placement. If you get that wrong you can't play the instrument. At least not western music. The other thing is that the guitar must stand up to the stresses placed on it. If you get that wrong the instrument will break. Everything else you can change and somebody already has.
Author:  Chris Paulick [ Sat Apr 25, 2009 9:22 am ]
Post subject:  Re: You Tube videos and advice to beginners.
Don't worry, if you mess up the frets and saddle spacing you can always raise the nut and have a lap steel. :P
Author:  David Collins [ Sat Apr 25, 2009 10:08 am ]
Post subject:  Re: You Tube videos and advice to beginners.
Mike Mahar wrote:
In fact, I can think of only two things that must be done correctly. One is the fret spacing and saddle placement. If you get that wrong you can't play the instrument. At least not western music. The other thing is that the guitar must stand up to the stresses placed on it. If you get that wrong the instrument will break. Everything else you can change and somebody already has.


Oh, I don't know. You'd be surprised at just how many instruments have fret and saddle placement significantly out of place, and just how seldom it is noticed by players. Standing up to stresses is a grey area too, as how much distortion over what period of time holds a pretty wide range of acceptance depending on the instrument and the owner.

Dave's points are good for beginners, but I don't know that I can point to any ultimately reliable resource. The forums, books from respected authors, advice from experienced experts - these all contain just as much information that ranges from questionable, to bad, to outright irrefutably wrong, as do the videos.

The best thing you have to rely on is your brain, and tuning up your reasoning skills (certainly not a guaranteed intuitive function of the mind) is your best chance of being able to filter out the crap and choose wisely what sources and advice to trust. Experience directly in the field certainly can't be replaced, but being reasonably conscious and critical of all you take in is the only way to make sure that experience isn't a wasted effort.
Author:  Chris Paulick [ Sat Apr 25, 2009 10:20 am ]
Post subject:  Re: You Tube videos and advice to beginners.
Learn what you can from where ever you can and ask questions. As they are food for thought and what makes these forums of value as that's what fuels these discussions and gets the exchange of ideas. I ask them all the time even if I have an idea of what I think I'm going to do but it doesn't hurt to get some feed back that might save me time and expense or even just a better understanding of something. I think it also may cause someone else to come up with some ideas, brain storming. I'm always beware of someone making a blanket statement or statement of certainty. I like when a question is answered with an explaination or something like, " I think, I find, In my experience" or something along that line. I filter out what I think is not relevant and keep in mind the rest even if questionable as it may prove to be relevant somewhere down the line. I guess it's keeping an open mind. I think that the beginner will learn to do that as they learn more and more as that's the learning process.
YouTubes are pretty much a tutorial or show and tell. Usually someone showing how they do things. Where as the future is Videos/ DVD/via Youtube. I see the real future as being interactive streaming as we all get cams on our computers. I'm not very computer literate but I'm thinking we could do that now. What does it involve to do an oline course like Robbie had on FP? Hmmm, I'll have to start another discussion on that.
My videos in some cases are the first time I do something, like the router base, gluing on the back with gobars and the dish jig for example. I don't say this is the way to do it just that this is how I do it. My hope is that it will encourage someone to give it a try and to give me feed back if they can improve on it. But I think it's good for someone to see it being done even if it isn't perfect as I have alot of learning for sure. But someones got to do it. Like Todd said it makes him rethink his process sometimes.
But for the beginner keep in mind what Laurent stated.
Author:  Erik Hauri [ Sun Apr 26, 2009 8:51 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: You Tube videos and advice to beginners.
I think all of this is a good reason to use your actual name - be it on an internet forum, a YouTube video, or a comment on a video.

If I see something on the internet by (say) Todd Stock - and with 60 seconds of Google searching find out that he's an actual pro builder - I'll pay a lot more attention to what he has to say than something posted by "Stockdude182".
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