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My latest rosette - It's about time :(
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Author:  Rod True [ Thu Apr 23, 2009 12:02 am ]
Post subject:  My latest rosette - It's about time :(
Well, this might very well be the longest it's ever taken anyone to successfully install a rosette.

I started this guitar 3 years ago and I screwed up two separate tops and rosettes (all of the same design). I gave up on it for well over a year and I finally got the courage up to give it one last try.

The guitar that this is part of has a lot of Celtic inlays on it and the rosette for some reason really gave me grief. First time out, I sanded it down to far and most of it was not Gold MOP anymore :x strike 1. Second time I tried filling the gaps with ebony dust and CA. Well, that was a disaster and that was the first time I threw a piece at the wall (it didn't make it).

I finally asked someone who has done this rosette before how he did it. Now that I know, I'm sort of [headinwall] but it was a good lesson for me and in the end, it turned out great. It's not totally finished, I still have a few pin holes to fill (I better not screw that up :shock: )

A huge thank you to Ron Wisdom (AKA: Old Man) for helping me out with this rosette. I really appreciate it.

Oh, and if anyone is wondering, this rosette has about (guessing here) 250 pieces and they are all hand cut. It is supplied by Andy DePaule at DePaule Supply.

Thanks for looking.

Attachment:
Celtic Rosette.JPG
Author:  Cal Maier [ Thu Apr 23, 2009 12:07 am ]
Post subject:  Re: My latest rosette - It's about time :(
WOW! That looks great Rod. Well worth the wait, I'm sure.

Cal
Author:  SniderMike [ Thu Apr 23, 2009 12:08 am ]
Post subject:  Re: My latest rosette - It's about time :(
Rod, that is super cool. I'm glad you stuck with it. [clap] [clap] [clap]
Author:  James Orr [ Thu Apr 23, 2009 1:29 am ]
Post subject:  Re: My latest rosette - It's about time :(
Wow! Good perseverance!
Author:  jordan aceto [ Thu Apr 23, 2009 7:30 am ]
Post subject:  Re: My latest rosette - It's about time :(
Hey, i am building a guitar with that same DePaule rosette right now, what are the odds. I also had trouble with sanding through the golden topping in a few spots, its right on the surface in some places, and others it is a little bit thicker, dang. I am counting on coloring it during the finish process. Yours looks super good.

I really like all the stuff i have gotten from DePaule, i could cut all those little pieces myself, but then i would go insane and have to finish the guitar from inside the crazy house, and they don't let you have pointy tools there.
Author:  Ken C [ Thu Apr 23, 2009 7:37 am ]
Post subject:  Re: My latest rosette - It's about time :(
Looks terrific Rod. So did you use tinted epoxy? What did you final settle on for gluing it in?

Ken
Author:  walnut47 [ Thu Apr 23, 2009 8:16 am ]
Post subject:  Re: My latest rosette - It's about time :(
I love it!!!

What was the wisdom imparted by the Old Man?
Walter
Author:  SteveSmith [ Thu Apr 23, 2009 8:22 am ]
Post subject:  Re: My latest rosette - It's about time :(
Hey Rod, it looks great. So, what are the steps you went through to install it? For similar inlays, but on a much smaller scale, I place the inlay in place then use thin CA to lock it in. Next I use tinted epoxy to fill. I've never tried something with that many pieces before.
Author:  Alan [ Thu Apr 23, 2009 11:37 am ]
Post subject:  Re: My latest rosette - It's about time :(
I bought a DePaule rosette a while back, but haven't used it yet. I asked about using black epoxy and he said that would work fine. I think he was also the person that gave me a tip on using a light to provide a little heat on the epoxy to help prevent bubbles from creating holes in the epoxy.
Author:  Rick Cowan [ Thu Apr 23, 2009 11:45 am ]
Post subject:  Re: My latest rosette - It's about time :(
Fantastic job Rod! I really like the look of Celtic knots but couldn't muster up the courage to try one of these on my first build. I would like to add a Celtic knot as a 12th fret marker though. Can you share with us what the secret to pulling this off is (i.e. what wisdom did your tutor share)? Any other pearls of wisdom relating to intricate inlay work this this?

TX!
Rick
Author:  Bill Hodge [ Thu Apr 23, 2009 12:05 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: My latest rosette - It's about time :(
Good job Rod. Perseverance produces victory, way to go. :) I've been contemplating one of these rosettes as well.
Good to know of their problematic tendencies.
Author:  Rod True [ Thu Apr 23, 2009 12:16 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: My latest rosette - It's about time :(
Thanks folks. I'm really pleased with how its turned out.

Here's the way to install it.

First to remove the inlay from the backing board, put clear packing tape over top of the inlay and push it on as hard as possible. Than, cut the tape out so that only the inlay is covered. Even the gap at the top of the rosette. This of course helps to ensure it stays together right.

Next, take a pie plate or similar container (a deep plate would work fine) and put the inlay on the backing board in it. Pour hot water over top and let the white glue soften and the inlay will all lift right off the backing board, yet the packing tape will stay put.

Now the rosette is free to inlay.

Leave the top plate thicker than need be by 0.010-0.020". When cutting the channel, cut it deeper than the shell by 0.005-0.010", this way the shell will sit down in the channel and you can than level the top plate without sanding through the color of the inlay (that was my problem on the first try).

The first channel I cut was for the inner and outer purflings. I than installed the purfling lines, B/W/B. This inside black purfling line helps to make the black matrix around the shell 'even'. That's the best I can describe it.

After the purfling line is set, cut the rest of the channel, up to the inside black purfling line. Again, cut the channel for the shell deeper than the thickest piece of shell by 0.005-0.010". Now dry fit the shell.

Once happy with the fit, I filled the channel with black epoxy. I used ebony dust and a few drops of ink to make the epoxy black. Don't put to much epoxy in the channel, it's easier to fill the voids versus cleaning up a lot of dried epoxy.

Place the shell into the channel and press it down. I put a piece of wax paper over the shell, than a piece of plywood over top of that and clamped it in the go-bar deck.

When the epoxy is cured, scrape or sand to make it flat, but don't take to much of the top plate off. You don't want to sand down to the shell yet.

Than I masked around the entire purfling lines, both inside and outside and extending about 2" radius outside of the purfling line. This ensures I don't get epoxy all over the top.

Blow out the shell and fill the voids with more black epoxy. I used a piece of spruce cut to an edge as a trowel to spread the epoxy. Try not to leave much if any on the top of the shell. This will make clean up and leveling easier.

When the epoxy is set and hard, pull the tape off and level down to the shell.

That's it (sounds way more complicated than it is really).

Rick Cowan wrote:
Fantastic job Rod! I really like the look of Celtic knots but couldn't muster up the courage to try one of these on my first build. I would like to add a Celtic knot as a 12th fret marker though. Can you share with us what the secret to pulling this off is (i.e. what wisdom did your tutor share)? Any other pearls of wisdom relating to intricate inlay work this this?

TX!
Rick


Rick, I can hardly even be considered a rookie at inlay work. The biggest factor for any inlay work though is take your time, practice practice, practice and if it doesn't work out, set it aside and try again. Don't let it win :)

Bill Hodge wrote:
Good job Rod. Perseverance produces victory, way to go. :) I've been contemplating one of these rosettes as well.
Good to know of their problematic tendencies.


Bill, the problem was with the installer, not necessarily the material :D
Author:  old man [ Thu Apr 23, 2009 12:23 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: My latest rosette - It's about time :(
Wow, Rod, I blew that pic up as big as it would go and I don't see anything wrong with it. You nailed it. bliss

Ron
Author:  Bill Hodge [ Thu Apr 23, 2009 12:24 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: My latest rosette - It's about time :(
Thanks for the tips Rod. I'll try to remember it while I'm keeping one eye on the forest. ;)
Author:  Randolph [ Thu Apr 23, 2009 1:54 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: My latest rosette - It's about time :(
WOW! way worth it Rod. It looks killer. This guitar is going to be a show stopper!! Way to hang in there. [:Y:] [:Y:]
Author:  Alain Desforges [ Fri Apr 24, 2009 10:17 am ]
Post subject:  Re: My latest rosette - It's about time :(
That does look fantastic bro! Your perseverance was well rewarded in the end!
Author:  DannyV [ Fri Apr 24, 2009 10:30 am ]
Post subject:  Re: My latest rosette - It's about time :(
Hey Rod,
Beautiful looking! Pretty nice to see something a little different. Looking forward to seeing the rest.

All The Best,
Danny
Author:  justink [ Sat Apr 25, 2009 10:46 am ]
Post subject:  Re: My latest rosette - It's about time :(
WOW. That is truly amazing. I can't wait to see the finish guitar. I have a lot to aspire to - Thank You.
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