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14th fret classical plan?
http://www.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10101&t=22035		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  kdguitars [ Sun Apr 19, 2009 11:46 pm ]
Post subject:  14th fret classical plan?
Hi guys

I am building a guitar for a guy that is a converted heavy metal guy who is playing classical now. He wants a 650 mm scale length but with 2 octave range. I know this is a can of worms but I am thinking of a 14 fret attatchment, with a cutaway. Any plans or headaches that I should be aware of? ie how much the bridge will move? I know that the idea is not "normal" but the guy is really cool and I want to do what he would like, with as much success as possible.

I have looked under the archives for classical plan 14th fret but didn't find a plan so if this is a retread please direct me to the right post, much appreciated.
Author:  Alexandru Marian [ Mon Apr 20, 2009 1:59 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 14th fret classical plan?
Funny this reminds me of a friend, who studied classical (even has a Conservatory degree) and then converted to Metal \m/ and wants me to build him an electric with a ...flat and wide fingerboard :)
I don't think there is such a 14th fret plan out there. I guess follow a regular plan and change it. Must be a big guitar, such as the Rodriguez plan, because a smaller one (Torres, Romanillos, even Hauser) would look rather awkward with a cutaway and long neck.

One way to push the bridge back down a bit would be to use a 660mm scale. Ask him about that. For many people it is a rather uncomfortable scale, you need shovels for hands.

Stick a graphite or ebony rod, maybe. Try not to put a trussrod (even if that would be cool for an electric player), that will make the guitar too neck heavy.
Author:  CWLiu [ Mon Apr 20, 2009 4:17 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 14th fret classical plan?
I've made a classical with a 5-degree-angled top and 24th fret. The notes beyond 20th fret are not very usable because of the quality. Or you can made him a deep cutaway. Nylon strings have much less energy so it's probably not a good idea to simply made a 14th fret version.
Author:  Alan Carruth [ Mon Apr 20, 2009 12:14 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 14th fret classical plan?
Why would the string energy/tension make a difference in the number of frets you could use on the neck?

I used my small classical pattern to make a 14-fret steel string last year to take to Montreal. It worked fine, but, of course, it was X-braced. I used the 'normal' number of frets, and this allowed me to shift the soundhole up. It did not have a cutaway.

Does he want the full 24 frets under all of the strings? If you could use a fingerboard extension out into the soundhole for the first one or two strings you could move the hole a bit, and shift the 'waist' brace up. This would help keep the top from being too stiff in front of the bridge owing to the short span between the bridge and the brace.
Author:  douglas ingram [ Mon Apr 20, 2009 1:50 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 14th fret classical plan?
I bent some sides last week for a long neck classical. Double cutaway ala Gibson ES335. I used a Fleta plantilla and left the body, waist, neck, bridge, etc, in their original place, just shifted the upper bout arrangement. I think that these are the easiest and least consequential elements that we can play around with. Everything that we do will have some effect on the tonal results.

I have found that when I add the fretboard extension to get 21 frets, that the tonal quality drops pretty quick above fret 19, and there could be any number of reasons why. It doesn't get used all that much.
Author:  Ricardo [ Mon Apr 20, 2009 1:58 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 14th fret classical plan?
Karl have a look at grimesguitars.com. He builds a nylon string with upper bout sound holes that way you don't need to worry about fingerboard sound hole relationships. His bracing pattern is similar to Bogdanovich plan with the slanted lower transverse brace.
Author:  David LaPlante [ Mon Apr 20, 2009 11:06 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 14th fret classical plan?
This is my 14 fret classical design.
Quite a few changes were made to accomodate the new bridge position required by the 14 fret neck and long 660mm scale.
-wider 15" body to provide adequate flexibility at the forward bridge location
-larger sound hole and shallower body depth to raise the resonant frequency of the body
-cut off bars around the periphery of the lower bout to stiffen and maintain a bright treble response

you can hear it here:

http://cdbaby.com/cd/npstookey9


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stookey14fret-003.jpg
Author:  kdguitars [ Tue Apr 21, 2009 5:44 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 14th fret classical plan?
THanks guys

The player wants a more comfortable 650 scale and a heavier guitar. He is currently playing a 73 rodriquez and finds it moves around a bit as he is playing so he "holds" it with his body to keep it from floating around as he is playing. He is also ok with fingerboard extention for just the upper strings. Do you think a 14th fret 650 scale are mutually exclusive for a classical hybrid?

David
Liked the sound of your guitar on the Camill? track.

Ricardo
I dont think he would go for the 2 soundholes, He wants a "non traditional-traditional" idunno
Author:  Alexandru Marian [ Tue Apr 21, 2009 7:03 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 14th fret classical plan?
14/650 will do if that is what he wants :) Put the transverse bar very very close to the soundhole edge and make an as narrow as possible rosette (David's is narrower than usual too)
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