| Official Luthiers Forum! http://www.luthiersforum.com/forum/ |
|
| Making a shooting board for top and back joining http://www.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10101&t=22032 |
Page 1 of 1 |
| Author: | Link Van Cleave [ Sun Apr 19, 2009 9:29 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Making a shooting board for top and back joining |
This is quick and easy. Not as elegant as Todd's ramped one but will do the job. Start with some mdf or ply. I like mdf light, because,.... drum roll,... it's light. It is also nice and slick. Anyway take the largest size top you might use and the plane you plan to use and just lay them on a piece of mdf. Play around to get a idea on how long and wide to make the thing. I think the total length of this one is 36". Mark with chaulk and when satisfied take the measurements and cut your two main pieces that will make up the board. Attachment: shoot 1.JPG Throw a couple of clamps on and check it to see if you like it. Attachment: shoot 2.JPG Screw from the bottom. No need to glue. You could shoot with finish nails. Attach a stop with screws, you may want to move it later. Hold it back a little from the edge. Leave room for the plane to complete the cut and be supported. Attachment: shoot 4.JPG For support at the back of the board I made a quick jig, basically a dowelling jig. I used some 16p gun nails for my stops because they are pretty uniform and I always have them around. Your hole spacing for the jig doesn't matter as each row is a repeat of the other. I used 3/8" spacing. You could screw or clamp a support back there. With the nails I can adjust to different size tops or backs with out moving screws or clamps. Attachment: shoot 5.JPG The wood over hangs so that the sole of the plane is on your top wood, not the shooting board. I have about 3/16" of overhang. If folks are interested I can do a how to shoot the edge and join type of thing. Link Attachment: shoot 6.JPG
|
|
| Author: | Mike OMelia [ Sun Apr 19, 2009 10:17 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Making a shooting board for top and back joining |
Link, How amazingly timely! I just posted a question at SMC on this very subject. And here is what I do not get. How do you keep the blade from cutting the shooting board? Basically, I don't get it yet. Mike |
|
| Author: | Link Van Cleave [ Sun Apr 19, 2009 10:27 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Making a shooting board for top and back joining |
The blade doesn't touch the board, it only touches the wood you are planing. The wood you are planing overhangs the the ledge of the shooting board. Does that make sense ? Link |
|
| Author: | Link Van Cleave [ Sun Apr 19, 2009 10:42 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Making a shooting board for top and back joining |
Mike, What I said is for this type of shooting board. There is another type that is for squaring up the ends of boards. You are shooting end grain in this type of board. On this type of board you do indeed run your plane against the edge of the shooting board. So the edge of the shooting board needs to be true and some kind of hardwood. Your plane will cut into the edge but will only cut as deep as the blade protrudes. There will still be a small area where the sole of the plane will register against a uncut part of the shooting board. This part doesn't get cut because there is no blade there. You can also use a short plane on this type of board as again you are registering on the shooting board unlike what I have shown here. Here we want to use the sole of the plane only and use a longer plane because of this. Everything else is just to hold the work so you can concentrate on what you are doing. Tomorrow I will take a picture of the end grain type shooting board. (For lack of a better name for it. ) Link |
|
| Author: | David Newton [ Sun Apr 19, 2009 10:54 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Making a shooting board for top and back joining |
Nice board Link. I have a feeling I'm fixin' to show my ignorance, but when do you need to shoot end grain? |
|
| Author: | Link Van Cleave [ Sun Apr 19, 2009 11:15 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Making a shooting board for top and back joining |
David, It isn't limited to end grain. But for a example. Say you were wanting to shave a very small amount off the end of a fret board to compensate the nut a little closer to the bridge. Maybe not the best example but bear with me. Lets assume the board is off the neck for this example. You could use a chop saw but that is hard to control how much you take off and it is easy to do too much. Same with a sled in a table saw. With the shooting board you can take a precise controlled shaving off. One stroke, two stokes, one more, just right. Glass like finish on the wood too. In furniture if you use loose tenon joinery you can really finely fit any piece of wood between too other pieces. Cut close with table saw or chop saw and sneak up on the fit to tolerances that are the thickness of a shaving. I used one today to safety refine some rosette tiles with perfect accuracy that would be impossible and down right dangerous to do on a machine. I will post some pictures tomorrow. I don't explain things well. Link |
|
| Author: | Mike OMelia [ Mon Apr 20, 2009 12:00 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Making a shooting board for top and back joining |
Link, So the board you show above is for end grains? It looks like you are shaving with the grain here. I am starting to get the picture. For the type I want (for joining top & back sets), I want the hardwood type, right (two boards)? And there, I would run the plane on the edge till the sole stopped any further cutting, then put the pieces between the shooting boards. Right? Would you mind suggesting a plane suitable for this job also? Mike |
|
| Author: | Link Van Cleave [ Mon Apr 20, 2009 12:33 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Making a shooting board for top and back joining |
Mike, I am afraid I have confused the issue. Tomorrow I will post pictures of the two types of boards. The board I have shown is for planing with the grain as you noted, not for end grain or trimming. I really don't call this a shooting board but have done so because everybody else does. The board I have shown is for jointing the edge of the soundboard and the back. The plane does not touch the ledge of the shooting board. From my picture it looks as if the spruce is even with the edge of the mdf but I can assure you it is overhanging by at least 1/4". Most of you have paid good money to Veritas or Lie Neilson for a nicely machined and flattend plane sole or worked pretty hard to flatten a used plane. You want to use that sole not some factory edge of a piece of ply or mdf. I was only mentioning the other type of shooting board because I have noted some confusion and some folks had the notion that you ran the plane on the edge of the board. I think I have added to the confusion instead of clearing it up. My bad. As I said more pictures coming. Also the hardwood in the other type of board is just a edging glued to the plywood to run the plane against. Link |
|
| Author: | Link Van Cleave [ Mon Apr 20, 2009 12:45 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Making a shooting board for top and back joining |
Check out Todd Stocks toot : http://www.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10117&t=21181 He shows how to make a "bench hook". He shows how to use it as a shooting board. He just uses his bench as the bottom board. You could slap his bench hook on a piece of plywood and screw it together and have a shooting board. |
|
| Author: | Mike OMelia [ Mon Apr 20, 2009 8:23 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Making a shooting board for top and back joining |
Thanks Link. I also found this tutorial: http://www.inthewoodshop.com/ShopMadeTo ... oard4.html Mike |
|
| Author: | Mike OMelia [ Mon Apr 20, 2009 9:47 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Making a shooting board for top and back joining |
Here is another that talks about end grain and along the grain http://www.fineboxes.com/ShootingBoard.htm Mike |
|
| Author: | Link Van Cleave [ Mon Apr 20, 2009 9:56 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Making a shooting board for top and back joining |
That looks like a good explanation Mike. I am sorry if I was confusing. Really the board I showed is just a wood holder. It just supports the wood so you can concentrate on the planing and not have the wood slipping all over the place. The board that guy showed is what I call a shooting board. And as he said any plane can work. For our use with the board I showed you need a long plane. Link |
|
| Author: | Mike OMelia [ Mon Apr 20, 2009 3:34 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Making a shooting board for top and back joining |
Sorry Todd, I think I misunderstood what you said. Are you saying all shooting boards are not for guides, depth stop, etc, or just the bench hook that Link and you have described? Mike BTW: I like the bench hook and am going to build one! |
|
| Author: | Mike OMelia [ Mon Apr 20, 2009 8:39 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Making a shooting board for top and back joining |
Having read of that, I must say what you are saying did not come at me intuitively. However, the part that got me is where you spoke about depth errors being doubled... and though you did not say it, repeated. Plus, if the "guide" is not straight, but has any curve in it, it will show up in the joint, amplified as the sole size decreases. I finally get it Link and thank you for your patience (you too Todd!!) Off to search for an appropriate plane... thoughts here will be appreciated. Mike |
|
| Author: | Mike OMelia [ Mon Apr 20, 2009 11:37 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Making a shooting board for top and back joining |
http://www.amazon.com/Stanley-12-905-14 ... 306&sr=8-3 Is this the right one? Mike |
|
| Author: | glivo [ Tue Apr 21, 2009 1:02 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Making a shooting board for top and back joining |
It's all about using correct terminology. When using a plane there are two things you can do. You can PLANE, ie shave timber in the direction of the grain, as in along an edge or a face. OR You can SHOOT, ie use the plane to remove timber from the end, as in across the end. A shooting board usually (read always) has a sacrificial block at the trailing edge which supports the piece being shot preventing the timber from splitting at the edge. I believe the aperatus shown in this thread is a planing board used to plane the widening jointed edges. |
|
| Author: | Arnt Rian [ Tue Apr 21, 2009 3:57 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Making a shooting board for top and back joining |
I don’t know what is the correct English name for this jig (fixture?) is, but the name I have seen used in instrument building literature is shooting board. I do know that Link’s design works well though, it is pretty much just like mine which I made from instructions in Cumpiano’s book years ago. My favourite plane is a vintage #5 ½ with a Hock blade and chip breaker, but a #3 up to #6 works almost just as well in my experience. Mike O’Melia, I would steer clear of those new Stanleys, they are pretty worthless compared to most older Stanley and similar brands. Like Todd said, you can get a ‘common as dirt’ vintage Stanley #5 in good condition for less money than one of the new ones, and it will clean up to a much nicer tool. For shooting (or edge planning?) a couple of 6 mm spruce pieces the stock blade will most likely be more than adequate. The key to success is proper tuning of the tool and good planning technique, the rest is mostly vanity IMO. |
|
| Author: | Link Van Cleave [ Tue Apr 21, 2009 10:58 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Making a shooting board for top and back joining |
I like Glivo's take. Lets call what I have built a "planing board". I have never been comfortable calling it a shooting board. It makes things confusing. It is nothing more than a wood holder. It doesn't really add a function other than just holding the work whereas what I would call a "shooting board" does add several functions with a end block to reduce tear out and square the cut and a edge to guide the plane along. As Todd had said he did , I also most of the time just find two pieces of wood throw them on the bench and go for it. The "planing board" I showed just helps one not have to worry about things slipping around which can be a big help. I may have contributed to confusion when I showed a picture of my square against the end stop there by implying that there was a function to the end stop beyond what it is for. On my "planing board" the end stop only stops the wood from sliding forward. It is not critical that it be a perfect 90°. So the "planing board" I showed just holds the work steady, nothing more. And the SOLE of the plane rides on the work piece not the edge of the "planing board". Link |
|
| Author: | Mike OMelia [ Tue Apr 21, 2009 1:55 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Making a shooting board for top and back joining |
Link Van Cleave wrote: And the SOLE of the plane rides on the work piece not the edge of the "planing board". Link Link, I finally understand that.  It is amazing how many differening ideas out there exist on this subject.Again, thanks! Mike |
|
| Author: | Mike OMelia [ Tue Apr 21, 2009 1:56 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Making a shooting board for top and back joining |
Arnt Rian wrote: I don’t know what is the correct English name for this jig (fixture?) is, but the name I have seen used in instrument building literature is shooting board. I do know that Link’s design works well though, it is pretty much just like mine which I made from instructions in Cumpiano’s book years ago. My favourite plane is a vintage #5 ½ with a Hock blade and chip breaker, but a #3 up to #6 works almost just as well in my experience. Mike O’Melia, I would steer clear of those new Stanleys, they are pretty worthless compared to most older Stanley and similar brands. Like Todd said, you can get a ‘common as dirt’ vintage Stanley #5 in good condition for less money than one of the new ones, and it will clean up to a much nicer tool. For shooting (or edge planning?) a couple of 6 mm spruce pieces the stock blade will most likely be more than adequate. The key to success is proper tuning of the tool and good planning technique, the rest is mostly vanity IMO. Thanks Arnt, I have contacted a few reputable dealers in the "old" Stanelys and now have a few options I am considering. I want the L-N someday, maybe for Christmas! Mike |
|
| Author: | glivo [ Tue Apr 21, 2009 6:52 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Making a shooting board for top and back joining |
Looking better already. I could sense some confusion and once everybody understands the grain direction we all know what each other is talking about. Another case in point: the difference between a TRENCH and a GROOVE. Grain Direction! |
|
| Page 1 of 1 | All times are UTC - 5 hours |
| Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group http://www.phpbb.com/ |
|