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acoustic pick up of choice?
http://www.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10101&t=21898		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  Jody [ Sat Apr 11, 2009 12:16 pm ]
Post subject:  acoustic pick up of choice?
I was wondering what type of built in pick - up would be recomended for a good duplication of acoustic tone. ease of installation and use would also be a factor. thanks Jody
Author:  L. Presnall [ Sat Apr 11, 2009 12:51 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: acoustic pick up of choice?
Jody,

The LR Baggs I-Beam active and the K & K Pure Western and mini are my faves...easy to install, versatile, and economical...

Larry
Author:  Alexandru Marian [ Sat Apr 11, 2009 1:10 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: acoustic pick up of choice?
I wonder if the K&K for nylon are good?
Author:  woody b [ Sat Apr 11, 2009 1:37 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: acoustic pick up of choice?
Disclaimer: This is just my opinion of pickups, I'm not, and I'm not pretending to be an expert.

Pickups like the LR Baggs I-Beam, the K&K and others sound great, but here's the problem. In a noisy setting, or a setting where higher volume levels are needed you have to notch, and EQ them to prevent feedback, taking away most of their great sound. A UST, like the Dtar Wavelength, even though it's not as natural will actually sound alot better than any of the bridgeplate transducers in a loud setting. In a quiter setting a decent condenser mic 12" or so from the guitar will sound better than either. My current gigging pickup set up is a removeable LR Baggs M1 with a LR Baggs PADI preamp. In some settings I also have a condenser mic on a separate boom off my vocal mic stand. I have it a little to the side and off axis. I get on axis and closer to it for lead breaks. This give my solos a volume and tone boost.

Again, my opinion, and experience is natural sounding pickup= useless pickup in a setting where a mic won't work. Decent condenser mic in a quiter setting= better tone than any pickup.

Added: Obviously a magnetic LR Baggs M1 won't work with a nylon stringed guitar. I haven't touched a classical guitar in years, and I've never amplified one, so I have no opinion on pickups for them.
Author:  Shane Neifer [ Sat Apr 11, 2009 2:14 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: acoustic pick up of choice?
I've installed K&K pure mini's in both steelstring and nylon string guitars. I think they sound way more "natural" than UST pickups but that has been said already. I like the sound of the K&K trinity enough that I have just asked John Greven to put one into the guitar he is going to make for the company (me!). So, as Larry said, they are certainly a good value all around and Alex, again, I don't think you can wrong, although I do prefer the trinity to just the mini by itself.

Shane
Author:  Burton LeGeyt [ Sat Apr 11, 2009 2:49 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: acoustic pick up of choice?
I have put the K&K mini in a couple of guitars and they sounded very good. Does anyone have any experience with Schatten pickups? A customer wanted one of their active beam style pickups in his guitar and I couldn't believe how good it sounded. It sounded loads better than the K&K's, but I have never run one through a preamp(and they sound good with no preamp). There was no feedback or anything with the Schatten. What am I missing?
Author:  Ken Jones [ Sat Apr 11, 2009 4:44 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: acoustic pick up of choice?
I spent some time yesterday with Paul Heumiller at Dream Guitars in Weaverville, and picked up a Pure Western Mini and a Baggs Para Acoustic DI for the cocobolo GA I'm finishing up. I haven't used any of K&K's products, but Paul likes them a lot, and the Para DI is a great box. His favorite preamp is the Radial PZ-Pre, which is very impressive, just not quite in the budget. I think the key with any acoustic pickup is a good preamp/DI box that can deal with the sonic shortcomings inherent in most all of them, as well as having some feedback control.

Additionally, I've got to say what a terrific guy Paul is, and what an amazing bunch of guitars he has up there -- quite possibly the finest in the country. Just to be in the presence of so many phenomenal hand built instruments, not to mention their vintage inventory, is truly humbling. The quality of craftsmanship of every instrument in there is so far off the charts, I question if I'll ever complete anything worthy of inclusion there. I'm sure going to try to improve my technique with every new guitar I build, and be proud knowing that I've done my best.

Ken
Author:  James Orr [ Sat Apr 11, 2009 5:59 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: acoustic pick up of choice?
I like UST in general, and the B Band UST specifically. However, I also play contemporary music in groups, and UST's position the guitar better in those situations. For solo gigs, or acoustic groups like folk or what not, I'd pick a soundboard transducer.
Author:  phil [ Sat Apr 11, 2009 9:01 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: acoustic pick up of choice?
i've installed four wavelengths in guitars i've builst and love them. they still have some of that ust sound, but not too bad. and they really roar in the monitor with no feedback issues.
one of my buddies has a baggs double barrel (no longer available) in the guitar i made for him and it sounds nice.
and another friend has a baggs imix in the guitar i made for him and i think it sounds thin and quacky. it was him spending a lot of money on that imix that has led me to automatically install wavelengths in all the guitars i build - cheaper and better.
phil
Author:  James Ringelspaugh [ Sat Apr 11, 2009 11:03 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: acoustic pick up of choice?
Another vote for K&K.
Author:  cyrguitars [ Sat Apr 11, 2009 11:47 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: acoustic pick up of choice?
I've used K & K Pure Westerns and Pure Western Minis in four acoustic guitars and two acoustic bass quitars with excellent results. I've also used their Big Double Twins in my electric upright basses - also worked very well. I've found the K&K stuff works well with and without a preamp. So my vote is for K & K as well.

--Steve
Author:  Daniel Minard [ Sun Apr 12, 2009 3:30 am ]
Post subject:  Re: acoustic pick up of choice?
I like the K&K's too & have installed several of them in the past year. All my customers have been very happy. I find the Trinity has more heavy wire & bulky connectors than I like to stuff into one guitar, but on stage it sounds very nice.
It hasn't been mentioned yet, but I really like the Fishman Matrix Blend. UST plus internal microphone. The pre-amp & controls are compact & slick to use... & the sound is great. Plenty of clarity & punch on a busy stage. There can be monitor feedback issues if you blend in too much microphone, but the extra warmth is worth the minute it takes to get it set up right.
Just one more opinion...
Author:  Jeffrey L. Suits [ Sun Apr 12, 2009 9:50 am ]
Post subject:  Re: acoustic pick up of choice?
Alexandru Marian wrote:
I wonder if the K&K for nylon are good?


Wonder no more; they're great in nylon string guitars. About 2/3 of the installs I do, are in nylon strings.
Author:  Chris Paulick [ Sun Apr 12, 2009 10:02 am ]
Post subject:  Re: acoustic pick up of choice?
What nobody using Fishmans or Pick up the World? Anyone tried the Fishman Matrix Infinity System?
Author:  SteveSmith [ Sun Apr 12, 2009 2:52 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: acoustic pick up of choice?
I just replaced my last Fishman with a K&K mini. Admittedly, the Fishman was an old UST.
Author:  Daniel Minard [ Mon Apr 13, 2009 2:21 am ]
Post subject:  Re: acoustic pick up of choice?
I think *one* of the reasons Fishman isn't popular with builders is that they don't offer discounts to small shops or individual luthiers. Their distributors pretty much have a lock on sales. Some distributors offer discounted prices, so it's worth asking.
I'd love to try the Infinity system... As soon as I find a customer with sufficient bucks.
Yesterday, I installed an old (used) Fishman UST in a not bad (even older) Fender acoustic.
I remember now, why I like the K&K's so much.
Author:  bob_connor [ Mon Apr 13, 2009 4:02 am ]
Post subject:  Re: acoustic pick up of choice?
EMG UST's are nice and fat in the top end if you need high SPL's.

Otherwise K&K for low volume gigs.
Author:  Chris Paulick [ Mon Apr 13, 2009 7:25 am ]
Post subject:  Re: acoustic pick up of choice?
Daniel Minard wrote:
I think *one* of the reasons Fishman isn't popular with builders is that they don't offer discounts to small shops or individual luthiers. Their distributors pretty much have a lock on sales. Some distributors offer discounted prices, so it's worth asking.
I'd love to try the Infinity system... As soon as I find a customer with sufficient bucks.
Yesterday, I installed an old (used) Fishman UST in a not bad (even older) Fender acoustic.
I remember now, why I like the K&K's so much.

Well if you build enough guitars you can apply to Fishman to sale their pickups. I had the application and price list once. They set your advertised price but you can sale them for less in store just can't advertise lower. Hmmm, I know someone who has a section in music store for his stuff. I wonder if he can get me a discount on their stuff.
Author:  Paul Burner [ Mon Apr 13, 2009 2:35 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: acoustic pick up of choice?
First - I need to qualify my pickup preference by telling you that I play in a LOUD 60s and 70s rock & roll band. We play everything from America to The Zombies, with visits to Mellencamp, Doobies, CS&N, Hollies.... just about anything that has GREAT harmonies.

That being said - and along with the loud monitor levels we tend to have to hear our vocals - I am VERY pleased with the tried and true LR Baggs LB6x in combination with a Para DI.

My guitar - which was once lost in the mix (Takamine with a cool tube), now cuts through and can be heard along with all the other instruments. The bottom end is amazingly clear and deep without being a rumbling mess. I have had absolutely NO issues with feedback.

I put a K&K Pure Western Mini in a recent build - and think it has a bit more midrange "honk" than the LB6x. It also is much more prone to feedback - and that's just in my basement hooked through my sound system.

Does the LB6 sound exactly like the guitar but amplified? Probably not - but I sure do like it A LOT!

IF you use the LB6 and use a 2.25" string spacing at the saddle (the pickup IS the saddle) then get the long "x" (wide) version of the pickup - the balance will be better.

A HUGE thanks to Kevin Gallagher for recommending this setup.
Author:  Bill Hodge [ Mon Apr 13, 2009 3:17 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: acoustic pick up of choice?
This is a very informative thread so far, thanks for posting it Jody Eat Drink
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