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| Wedge Guitar Question http://www.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10101&t=21851 |
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| Author: | Richard Sutherland [ Wed Apr 08, 2009 2:30 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Wedge Guitar Question |
I'm thinking of giving this a try and wanted to ask the experts if I might angle the back side of the rim instead of the top side. I suppose that the neck heel will be at an angle as well, right? My shoulder is old and needs relief. Thanks |
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| Author: | Alan Carruth [ Wed Apr 08, 2009 2:36 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Wedge Guitar Question |
The ones I've seen, and the one I built, were all angled from the back. That is, if you look at the end of the guitar, the sides are more or less perpendicular to the top surface, and the back is at an angle. Smith's 1969 patent shows it that way, too. |
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| Author: | Fred Tellier [ Wed Apr 08, 2009 3:19 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Wedge Guitar Question |
I start spraying Nitro on my Wedge small jumbo this evening. I sloped the back as in Linda Manzer's guitars, that way the top plane and fingerboard look normal. This was a fun guitar to build for many reasons, but my sore shoulder will enjoy it the most. I had the good fortune to meet Linda at the Tony McManus guitar weekend last October and got to play one of her wedge guitars, it was so comfortable I just had to do one. The only adventure was making a side profile template as I like to bend the side after it is shaped, cutting the back binding channel turned out to be easy but I had to modify my Stew Mac True channel routing jig cradle to get sides square while doing the top. I left the neck heel square as it looks OK with the sloped back but I did contemplate the need to cut it to an angle to match the back. Some photos of this build are mixed in with my other 2009 build at http://s190.photobucket.com/albums/z228/fetellier/2009%20Guitar%20builds/ Fred |
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| Author: | Richard Sutherland [ Wed Apr 08, 2009 9:39 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Wedge Guitar Question |
Thanks Allan and Fred. |
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| Author: | Howard Klepper [ Thu Apr 09, 2009 12:04 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Wedge Guitar Question |
Alan Carruth wrote: The ones I've seen, and the one I built, were all angled from the back. That is, if you look at the end of the guitar, the sides are more or less perpendicular to the top surface, and the back is at an angle. Smith's 1969 patent shows it that way, too. Reference for that patent, please, if you have one. |
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| Author: | Alan Carruth [ Thu Apr 09, 2009 2:57 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Wedge Guitar Question |
The patent was granted to W.E. Smith on Feb. 11, 1969. It's #3,426,638. One of my students likes to look up old patents, and found in in one of the data bases with a simple search on 'wedge guitars'. From what I can see in all of the patent-lawyerese, he made all of the same claims that are usually made, but just got to the patent office first. |
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| Author: | Richard Sutherland [ Thu Apr 09, 2009 4:32 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Wedge Guitar Question |
So what's the legal ramifications of building one of these units? Cannot understand how one person could hold the ownership of building a guitar. |
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| Author: | Fred Tellier [ Thu Apr 09, 2009 4:39 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Wedge Guitar Question |
That is interesting I always thought this originated from Linda Manzer. Most people give her credit for this inovation but if Smith has the patent the credit for its design must be his. Fred |
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| Author: | windsurfer [ Thu Apr 09, 2009 6:10 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Wedge Guitar Question |
Patents prior to 1975 are not included in the on-line database at uspto.gov -only information available is the issue date http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Pars ... /3,426,638 This patent was issued Feb 11 1969 and expired 17 years later. -jd |
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| Author: | windsurfer [ Thu Apr 09, 2009 6:20 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Wedge Guitar Question |
Unofficial text of the patent is listed here: http://www.patentstorm.us/patents/7183473/fulltext.html you will need an account if you want to see the images -jd |
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| Author: | windsurfer [ Thu Apr 09, 2009 6:24 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Wedge Guitar Question |
a new resource for expired patents is google patents and they have all the images http://www.google.com/patents?id=6XNYAA ... _1#PPA1,M1 sheet 3 is likely the image people would be interested in. -jd |
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| Author: | Fred Tellier [ Thu Apr 09, 2009 7:55 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Wedge Guitar Question |
This was meant to facilitate playing with a bar slide while standing, and is such a extreme slant that it probably destroy the acoustic sound. I will still give credit to Linda for coming up with the shape I am building on my guitar. The good thing is the patent is expired, I wonder if Smith actually built a guitar like this, if so it would be interesting to see. I sprayed the 4th coat of lacquer on my wedge today, my sore shoulder can't wait to try it. Fred |
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| Author: | Richard Sutherland [ Thu Apr 09, 2009 10:04 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Wedge Guitar Question |
"...my sore shoulder can't wait to try it" Keep us posted Fred. This is the very reason I'll build mine. Wouldn't it be nice to have it turn out as well as Linda's? Not a chance for me though. Can't see so well anymore. |
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| Author: | Fred Tellier [ Fri Apr 10, 2009 8:57 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Wedge Guitar Question |
One certainly can not find fault with Linda's guitars, they are not as ornate as some but the fits and finish are flawless, and the decor and inlay very tastefully done. I had a chance to ask a few questions when I met her, but did not ask about the wedge as I was more interested in finish and wood selections at the time. Go for building the wedge and feel free to PM me with any questions, though the wedge is not that difficult to do. Fred |
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| Author: | Alan Carruth [ Fri Apr 10, 2009 1:18 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Wedge Guitar Question |
From my reading of it (and I have not read it carefully in a while) the bar slide was the starting point for the innovation, but the patent actually does cover all the bases. Remember, too, that the art work submitted with patent applications is often more illustrative than accurate: there are any number of reasons why they might have exagerated the degree of wedge. I'm sure Linda 'invented' the wedge guitar on her own: I've never seen or heard of a 'Smith Wedge' outside of the patent, and I doubt she has either. OTOH, as with so many things, it was probably 'in the air': the need and the technology were both there, and it was only a matter of time before somebody (or several somebodies) came up with the idea. In fact, it's likely enough that Smith wasn't the first inventor, either. I'd bet that if you dug around in the dusty corners of lutherie long enough, you'd find one from the 19th century or earlier. Look at the Novack 'fanned fret' patent: that idea was used on citterns in the 17th century, iirc. They were trying to solve a different problem, but that's somewhat beside the point. Linda is a good builder and a very innovative desgner. Credit where credit is due. But it does seem to me that we all need to have a little humility when working in a craft that has been so highly developed for so long. 'Pikasso' is an amazing design that nobody else would have come up with. The 'wedge' is such an obvious thing that I'd have been surprised if somebody had not come up with it before. |
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| Author: | Howard Klepper [ Fri Apr 10, 2009 1:39 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Wedge Guitar Question |
An article about Bill Cumpiano in 1995 described a wedge guitar that he built for a client, for ergonomic reasons. Not sure when that guitar was built. Does anyone know when Linda Manzer started to build hers? |
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| Author: | Fred Tellier [ Fri Apr 10, 2009 4:40 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Wedge Guitar Question |
I got this from Linda's web site. Her 1st wedge evolved from the Pat Metheny Picaso guitar she built in 1984. http://www.manzer.com/guitars/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=12&Itemid=15#thewedgecopyright I will continue to give Linda credit for what I am building as it was from her I got the inspiration to build it, and as Alan stated it is the kind of thing that could have parallel developed in many workshops over the years. All I know is my shoulder will like it for sure. Fred |
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