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| Old Brown Glue? (liquid hide) http://www.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10101&t=21778 |
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| Author: | Flori F. [ Fri Apr 03, 2009 10:10 am ] |
| Post subject: | Old Brown Glue? (liquid hide) |
I searched the archives and saw mention of a thread on "old brown glue" http://www.wpatrickedwards.com/gluepage.htm, but couldn't find the thread itself. And since that was a few years ago, I thought I'd start a new one. Eugene Clark mentions using Old Brown for the gluing tapping plates to his flamenco guitars. Apparently each batch is dated, so one can know when it's gone bad. Does anyone have experience with it? It sounds promising... 
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| Author: | WaddyThomson [ Fri Apr 03, 2009 10:51 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Old Brown Glue? (liquid hide) |
I know Eben Atwater, a member here, but mostly found over at Luthiercom.org, really likes Old Brown Glue. As I recall, it also got pretty good marks in the FWW glue test, but, liquid hide glues are not looked upon very well by most builders. |
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| Author: | LuthierSupplier [ Fri Apr 03, 2009 5:11 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Old Brown Glue? (liquid hide) |
I had a bad experience with it using it on a bridge re-glue. It popped off after a month. It could have been user error though. I talked with the owner about this glue when I was trying it out, and he said the additives will eventually break down the glue until it is too runny and no strength. This is if you keep it at room temperature. But he said if kept in the frig it could easily last a year and maybe 2. I just didn't use it enough and my batch went bad. I went back to fish glue and titebond. Hope that helps! |
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| Author: | MRS [ Sat Apr 04, 2009 2:04 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Old Brown Glue? (liquid hide) |
I read the Fine Woodworking article and this had me thinking about this glue again. I am planning to buy some just to experiment for my self in some of my non guitar woodworking projects. I used the titebond hide glue then i believe it was under the franklin label 20 years ago on a small red oak end table i made for my sister and it is still holding together fine. One thing is even though they don't recomend it i would heat the bottle it in hot tap water. This helped make it flow better in my opinion. |
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| Author: | Carey [ Sat Apr 04, 2009 2:13 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Old Brown Glue? (liquid hide) |
I bought a bottle in early '05, and used it on some repairs of my own guitars. Based on that limited experience, I can't recommend it for use on musical instruments. ~CW |
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| Author: | WaddyThomson [ Sun Apr 05, 2009 10:40 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Old Brown Glue? (liquid hide) |
I was talking to a luthier this weekend, who uses Liquid Hide Glue for rosettes, as it has a very long open time, and is not structural in nature. It might be worth a try for something like that. |
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| Author: | bluescreek [ Sun Apr 05, 2009 10:44 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Old Brown Glue? (liquid hide) |
In luthiery we talk about hide glue , we mean Hot Hide Glue. Bottled hide glue is not what you want . HHG is a great glue and what makes it so popular is the hardness and lack of creep. ALso the glue is the only reamalgable glue . That means it can reglue to itself. Unlike white and yellow glue that needs to have all the residue removed to expose clean wood. I don't like to mix glues so if I pull a bridge that has yellow glue I will reuse that again. john hall blues creek guitars |
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| Author: | Mike Collins [ Mon Apr 06, 2009 2:22 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Old Brown Glue? (liquid hide) |
go to - www.oldbrownglue.com and read all about it. Mike |
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| Author: | Michael Dale Payne [ Mon Apr 06, 2009 3:22 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Old Brown Glue? (liquid hide) |
I have tested OBG, Frankin LHG, and Norlan Fish glue. As a long open time animal protine glue I have had far better luck with Norlan fish glue. I had no real issue with OBG but found Norlan fish glue better for more invisible joints. I know there are many that distrust fish glue but I have to say Mike Collins turnd me on to some nearly 2 years ago and I have not had a single joint failure. While I still prefer HHG for braces and plate joints. I have built 3 full guitars with norlan Fish glue. One is in Cabo San Lucas Mexico now for over a year the other two are my personal guitars. no problems so far. Like I said; there are many that turn up their noeses to fish glue due to it subseptibility to high humidity in combination with heat. Now any protine glue that is cut with urea is subject to softening in extremly high humidity and heat. And yes pure fish glue is as well, but I don't shower nor sauna with my guitars hand have not clients that do so either so i expect no issues If I was to recommend a long open time protine glue to anyone it would be Norlan fish glue. |
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| Author: | Mike Collins [ Mon Apr 06, 2009 3:33 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Old Brown Glue? (liquid hide) |
The MOST important part of a glue joint is the joint itself. There can be NO gaps-wood to wood only! And do not flood the joint with glue-we can not compress a liquid !!! Fish glue is great ! just try it -NO glue pots -no throw away what you can't use ! It's just as strong as hide ! M.D.P. do you still have the web site for the fish glue to share? I have made guitars with Titebond # 1 in 1977 that show NO creep !! So use what you like ! Mike |
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| Author: | Michael Dale Payne [ Mon Apr 06, 2009 3:40 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Old Brown Glue? (liquid hide) |
Mike Collins wrote: M.D.P. do you still have the web site for the fish glue to share? Mike http://www.norlandprod.com 
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| Author: | jmpbuffalo [ Mon Apr 06, 2009 6:36 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Old Brown Glue? (liquid hide) |
bluescreek wrote: In luthiery we talk about hide glue , we mean Hot Hide Glue. ..... ALso the glue is the only reamalgable glue . That means it can reglue to itself. Unlike white and yellow glue that needs to have all the residue removed to expose clean wood. .... I thought fish glue was also able to bond to itself, if the old glue is re-moistened (others may know better.) Joe |
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| Author: | WaddyThomson [ Mon Apr 06, 2009 8:33 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Old Brown Glue? (liquid hide) |
Yes, fish glue will bond to itself. The reason is, that if you re wet it with water or new glue, it will get tacky again. It can be put down, allowed to dry, re- wet, and it will still be effective. The other thing I'll say, is that if the amount of effort it took me to get the back off of my second guitar, is any indicator, it takes more than just heat to release. It must have moisture. I had to work it loose with hot, wet pallet knives, and it ws a pain. |
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| Author: | MikeM [ Mon Apr 06, 2009 8:56 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Old Brown Glue? (liquid hide) |
For those of you who have the latest Americal Lutherie (#97) there is a very interesting and quasi-relevant article by Joseph Curtin from his 2008 GAL presentation. The article is focused on his innovative approaches to violin making, but he also describes mixing HHG with Franklin hide glue to vary the properties. He also suggests a pretty cool method of quickly tacking on a veneer by coating both surfaces with hide glue, allowing it to dry, and then using CA to quickly bind together. I have not tried either, and I use HHG not the bottled stuff, but I will probably try the CA trick just to see how it works. Mike. |
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