What Steve and Todd said!
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| Guitar Neck Joints http://www.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10101&t=21725 |
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| Author: | Jacob [ Mon Mar 30, 2009 8:16 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Guitar Neck Joints |
Hi guys, I recently built my first guitar based on the "Guitar Making, Traditional & Technology" by Cumpiano & Natelson. It was a wonderfull experience. I am now planning the next one. I bought the "OLF-Small Jumbo" plan and another book; "Build Your Own Acoustic Guitar" by Jonathan Kinkead. In this latest book, it is mentioned that the classical guitar neck joint "... creates a distortion-free zone for the fingerboard. " Does anyone know why it is not used on steel string guitar? is it because the bolt on is a lot easier to repair? Thank you, Jacob |
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| Author: | StevenWheeler [ Mon Mar 30, 2009 9:57 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Guitar Neck Joints |
Hello Jacob, Welcome to the forum. Steel string guitars use a removable neck joint to facilitate resetting the neck. This is generally required on these insturments because of the high tension of the steel strings. After many years of service, the sound board and other parts will change shape enough to cause the string action to become so high that it cannot be corrected by adjusting the saddle. Steve |
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| Author: | Bill Hodge [ Tue Mar 31, 2009 8:32 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Guitar Neck Joints |
What Steve and Todd said!
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| Author: | J Jones [ Tue Mar 31, 2009 9:54 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Guitar Neck Joints |
to be fair to alex willis, his guitars are mighty fine, they sound brilliant and all the stuff you would expect from a handmade guitar, however i would agree that it isn't the best guide for the modern steel string maker (the only stuff that he includes in there that are not in either cumpiano or kinkade can be found with a quick search and a post or two on here). His process obviously works for him, which i suppose is what is important. If you want the best of both worlds with a M&T joint and a slipper heel, you can use a c shaped head block to try and give the fingerbaord more support (Colin S showed his method somewhere, im sure a good search wll find it) take what i say with a spoonful of soap though, i too have only made 1 gutiar, so im second guessing and colaborating what i have read and learned. |
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| Author: | Kent Chasson [ Tue Mar 31, 2009 12:14 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Guitar Neck Joints |
I haven't read the Kinkaid book but maybe by "distortion-free zone", he means the spanish heel. That can be incorporated into a bolt-on neck and some folks do. I wouldn't call it "distortion-free" but it does add more resistance to the rotational forces. |
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| Author: | Alan Carruth [ Tue Mar 31, 2009 12:48 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Guitar Neck Joints |
I believe that Martin steel strings used a dovetail neck joint because Martin used it on their gut string guitars before they started using steel strings. It's an example of what an evolutionary biologist would call 'pre-adaptation': a feature that was already there which turned out to be useful in changed circumstances. Classical guitars benefit from using a removable neck joint, too, it's just that it takes longer for them to fold up. The traditional method of making classical guitars on a work board does not easily allow for a removable neck, but is a great example of 'hand tool mass production'. A good worker could quickly make a guitar that would hold up pretty well, and some allowance was usually built in, via extra fingerboard thickness, for later adjustment. By the time things got out of range, the guitar usually had so many other problems they just got a new one anyway. However you attach the neck, I'm all for dressing the fingerboard surface and fretting afterward. As far as I can see, it's the only way of getting it right. |
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| Author: | Mike Collins [ Tue Mar 31, 2009 1:53 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Guitar Neck Joints |
However you attach the neck, I'm all for dressing the fingerboard surface and fretting afterward. As far as I can see, it's the only way of getting it right! Said by Alan Carruth! I agree with Alan! Mike |
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| Author: | Howard Klepper [ Tue Mar 31, 2009 5:41 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Guitar Neck Joints |
Mike Collins wrote: However you attach the neck, I'm all for dressing the fingerboard surface and fretting afterward. As far as I can see, it's the only way of getting it right! Said by Alan Carruth! I agree with Alan! Mike The other way is not to mess up the fretboard when you attach the neck. |
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| Author: | Jacob [ Tue Mar 31, 2009 7:16 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Guitar Neck Joints |
Thank you for the welcome guys and the very good helpfull info. I wll try not to overthink this stuff too much as you say. Good point, with looking at Cumpiano's website. I never though of it. Another question: I notice that only electric guitars have a maple fretboard, is it not stable enough for acoustic guitars? I am asking because I was thinking that my next one will be made of curly maple, back, sides and neck and was wondering what it would do and look like if the fretboard was also maple. Jacob |
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| Author: | Alan Carruth [ Thu Apr 02, 2009 11:13 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Guitar Neck Joints |
I've used maple fretboards on acoustics, and they seem to work alright. The problemis that they get dirty so fast. I've used a walnut stain to help hide the dirt, but it's not a perfect solution. OTOH, a highly figured birdseye maple fretboard with walnut stain looks pretty cool. |
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| Author: | Jacob [ Thu Apr 02, 2009 8:05 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Guitar Neck Joints |
Thank you Alan. I visited your website tonight, I love the simplicity of the Persimmon OM it is a beautiful guitar. I see you have 12 strings too. I have tried to find info or plans on them but I could not. I figured it would be one those things that I may build maybe as a third or fourth guitar. I know that the neck is wider of course and that the bracing has to be made stronger but could not find by how much. Would you know where I could find info on them? Jacob |
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| Author: | Daniel Minard [ Thu Apr 02, 2009 8:49 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Guitar Neck Joints |
Alan; Thank you for your comment of leveling & fretting after the neck is attached to the body. I was feeling like an idiot to be still doing this, after some comments I read here, last year. I just couldn't see how to get it right doing it any other way. The nice thing about mechanical fasteners for the fingerboard extension & a bolt on neck joint is that you can level the board & then remove the neck to install the frets. Gotta love that! |
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