Some use a lacquer burn in stick to fill.
I've used ebony dust and CA and buff.
Angled file tool is great for gettng the angle without messing it up too badly.
Finally, it's an art.
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| Refretting unbound FB - how do you deal w/ends? http://www.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10101&t=21637 |
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| Author: | JRessler [ Wed Mar 25, 2009 9:13 am ] |
| Post subject: | Refretting unbound FB - how do you deal w/ends? |
I am refretting an unbound fingerboard. How do you sand / file the ends of the frets flush to the fingerboard without destroying the finish? How do you fill the void under the fret tang without destroying the finish? |
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| Author: | JJ Donohue [ Wed Mar 25, 2009 9:34 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Refretting unbound FB - how do you deal w/ends? |
John...I'm not good enough to file the fret ends flush without having to touch up the finish. I have cut or filed the tang back about 1/16" or less before inserting and fill the gap with dust and CA. When all filing, smoothing and polishing is done, then I touch up with finish and make it pristine again. Then again, you could use hemispherical fret ends but it might cost you to learn "the secret method". |
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| Author: | Bruce Dickey [ Wed Mar 25, 2009 1:07 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Refretting unbound FB - how do you deal w/ends? |
Some use a lacquer burn in stick to fill. I've used ebony dust and CA and buff. Angled file tool is great for gettng the angle without messing it up too badly. Finally, it's an art.
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| Author: | JRessler [ Wed Mar 25, 2009 2:09 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Refretting unbound FB - how do you deal w/ends? |
JJ Donohue wrote: Then again, you could use hemispherical fret ends but it might cost you to learn "the secret method". Thanks for the suggestions guys - at least the guitar is a bit of a beater - a good one to practice on. What will it take to get this secret out of you JJ? An extra ticket for the door prizes at the Chicago gathering??? |
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| Author: | JJ Donohue [ Wed Mar 25, 2009 2:38 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Refretting unbound FB - how do you deal w/ends? |
John...I'm not in possession of the secret method but if I were I'd spread it all over the forums like Johnny Appleseed. In actuality, the offer was presented by someone on the forum and Lance and Brock rightly deleted the thread. We can discuss it over a beer at the Chicago meeting. |
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| Author: | Terence Kennedy [ Wed Mar 25, 2009 3:03 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Refretting unbound FB - how do you deal w/ends? |
I'm afraid I'd have to offer a friendly disagreement JJ. The paltry sum required to access the "secret method" is actually money very well spent as it gives access to not only the fretting system but additional road tested pearls that reflect 30 years of building experience. Highly recommended. I'm not sure why Sylvan's post was deleted. It seemed no different from many others, including our moderators, that use the OLF as a vehicle to market their products. Something, incidentally, that I see as being perfectly OK. Terry |
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| Author: | woody b [ Wed Mar 25, 2009 3:15 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Refretting unbound FB - how do you deal w/ends? |
I trim the tangs on unbound fretboard just like I do for bound ones. Then I fill in the ends with burn in balm, and touch up the finish if needed. I know the secret hemispherical method but I'm not talking 
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| Author: | Michael Dale Payne [ Wed Mar 25, 2009 3:17 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Refretting unbound FB - how do you deal w/ends? |
Terence Kennedy wrote: It seemed no different from many others, including our moderators, that use the OLF as a vehicle to market their products. Terry Terry I am just assuming you are refering to the OLF plans and lance and brocks new FB slotting template. I can only speak of the OLF plans and the differance there is profits are going mostly to help fund the forum. I have no idea if Lance and Brock are doing the same with the FB template or not. They may have look at the FB templates as a group buy type thing which is never discouraged here. but none the less it is a vaid question. |
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| Author: | Howard Klepper [ Wed Mar 25, 2009 3:55 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Refretting unbound FB - how do you deal w/ends? |
IMO there is no need for the edges of an unbound board other than maple to be finished above the bottom of the fret tangs. |
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| Author: | Arnt Rian [ Wed Mar 25, 2009 4:40 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Refretting unbound FB - how do you deal w/ends? |
When refretting a guitar with an unbound fret board, you can touch up the fingeboard edge nicely with a little shellac if neccasary. I like Howard's idea (or opinion) better, though. |
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| Author: | David Collins [ Wed Mar 25, 2009 4:44 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Refretting unbound FB - how do you deal w/ends? |
It just takes the right files and the right touch. When I'm leveling fret ends on an unbound board, my final fret end file will not cut once it lands on a flat surface. It takes off the high spots, but once it hits the finish it will essentially plane out, and glides over without leaving a scratch (assuming you are careful to keep the file clean and not drag any chips). It can dig in to the finish if you don't know how to use it, but with the right touch it won't leave a mark. As to filling the gaps underneath, they are often filled with glue by the time I'm done, but I don't go out of my way to bother with this. If a customer seems overly concerned about this, I tell them to shut their pie hole and go learn how to play their guitar. 
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| Author: | StevenWheeler [ Wed Mar 25, 2009 6:09 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Refretting unbound FB - how do you deal w/ends? |
Fret not Chicago guys.  I'll show you how to do the semi hemi ends at the get together. John, I thought I showed you that already. Steve |
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| Author: | David Collins [ Wed Mar 25, 2009 7:24 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Refretting unbound FB - how do you deal w/ends? |
I don't get what the "secret" is. You cut the frets to length, and round and polish the ends before installing. Heck, if you have a crowning file and a cheap bench grinder with a little buffing wheel, you can pre-shape and polish all the fret ends, taking maybe a minute per fret at most. There may be individual's tricks efficiency and consistency, but getting the same results by your own method isn't rocket science. I've done one or two with rounded ends, but I still prefer a more faceted edge. It's not a big deal at all if you do want to make them round though. Just do it. Pick up a file, and it shouldn't take long to figure it out and get the hang of it. |
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| Author: | JJ Donohue [ Wed Mar 25, 2009 8:10 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Refretting unbound FB - how do you deal w/ends? |
I've actually played a guitar with semi-hemi fret ends and found it difficult to play for my style. While they look pretty, I find that because the frets are shorter, the strings more easily slip off the ends than they do with beveled ends. Perhaps I could get used to the style...but why should I when beveled frets work perfectly well and are no less comfortable? David...how much extra do you charge to re-fret with rounded fret ends? |
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| Author: | jordan aceto [ Wed Mar 25, 2009 9:13 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Refretting unbound FB - how do you deal w/ends? |
Like David Collins said- i have a couple of old beat up mill files that i like for trimming fret ends on unbound fingerboards, they just stop cutting when the metal is gone. I have never had a problem with scratching the finish, i dont think it even ever crossed my mind.(not to say that i have never scratched a customers guitar doing other things) On new instruments i fill the ends with CA, on refrets i dont worry about it. |
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| Author: | Bruce Dickey [ Wed Mar 25, 2009 9:33 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Refretting unbound FB - how do you deal w/ends? |
David Collins wrote: If a customer seems overly concerned about this, I tell them to shut their pie hole and go learn how to play their guitar.  David this is a highlight of my day, thanks for the laugh, really, thanks.
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| Author: | L. Presnall [ Wed Mar 25, 2009 10:35 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Refretting unbound FB - how do you deal w/ends? |
David Collins wrote: It just takes the right files and the right touch. When I'm leveling fret ends on an unbound board, my final fret end file will not cut once it lands on a flat surface. It takes off the high spots, but once it hits the finish it will essentially plane out, and glides over without leaving a scratch (assuming you are careful to keep the file clean and not drag any chips). It can dig in to the finish if you don't know how to use it, but with the right touch it won't leave a mark. As to filling the gaps underneath, they are often filled with glue by the time I'm done, but I don't go out of my way to bother with this. If a customer seems overly concerned about this, I tell them to shut their pie hole and go learn how to play their guitar. Dave, Do show us that file! Or is it just a plain mill file? |
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| Author: | Steve Kinnaird [ Wed Mar 25, 2009 10:35 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Refretting unbound FB - how do you deal w/ends? |
David Collins wrote: I don't get what the "secret" is. You cut the frets to length, and round and polish the ends before installing. Heck, if you have a crowning file and a cheap bench grinder with a little buffing wheel, you can pre-shape and polish all the fret ends, taking maybe a minute per fret at most. There may be individual's tricks efficiency and consistency, but getting the same results by your own method isn't rocket science. I've done one or two with rounded ends, but I still prefer a more faceted edge. It's not a big deal at all if you do want to make them round though. Just do it. Pick up a file, and it shouldn't take long to figure it out and get the hang of it. Amen! A dose of common sense! Thank you, David. Steve |
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| Author: | David Collins [ Thu Mar 26, 2009 7:54 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Refretting unbound FB - how do you deal w/ends? |
L. Presnall wrote: Dave, Do show us that file! Or is it just a plain mill file? Just a plain mill file, smooth cut, and well broken in. I actually use three - a 5" and 3" standard cut mill file for leveling them down close to the wood, then a 3" smooth file for taking them right down to the edge. They've all been cut and ground to length, and glued to wood backing handles. As Jordan pointed out, an old and beat up condition to the file is probably key. A fresh file will still cut on a flat surface. Break one in by dragging it back hard on some steel, or even filing flat on some fine sandpaper against a flat plate, and you can probably break them in pretty quickly though. This will of course destroy a file for general purposes, but makes it perfect for things like fret ends. JJ, I don't generally offer round ends, just because it's not my style. I can appreciate the look for those who like it, but it's already taken. I guess I see fret ends as something of a luthier's signature. Old style Martin ends are great, Santa Cruz has their very signature style - the semi-spherical ends just seem too much a pop trend of the day for me to use. They can be shaped so as to not narrow the playing surface any further than standard bevels, but I still prefer a more faceted look. Honestly, I shape a lot of different styles, often what I feel best fits the instrument on hand. I guess I'm still playing with options to find my "signature" fret end style. Any style that sufficiently takes off the corners will feel just fine to the hand though. |
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| Author: | L. Presnall [ Thu Mar 26, 2009 8:26 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Refretting unbound FB - how do you deal w/ends? |
David Collins wrote: L. Presnall wrote: Dave, Do show us that file! Or is it just a plain mill file? Just a plain mill file, smooth cut, and well broken in. I actually use three - a 5" and 3" standard cut mill file for leveling them down close to the wood, then a 3" smooth file for taking them right down to the edge. They've all been cut and ground to length, and glued to wood backing handles. As Jordan pointed out, an old and beat up condition to the file is probably key. A fresh file will still cut on a flat surface. Break one in by dragging it back hard on some steel, or even filing flat on some fine sandpaper against a flat plate, and you can probably break them in pretty quickly though. This will of course destroy a file for general purposes, but makes it perfect for things like fret ends. quote] Thanks Dave! I'm gonna wreck the heck out of one today!
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