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Who Uses CA to Glue Wood Bindings?
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Author:  Ken C [ Mon Mar 23, 2009 9:35 pm ]
Post subject:  Who Uses CA to Glue Wood Bindings?
With my last guitar, I taped my bindings and then when I was happy with the fit, I worked my way around the rim squirting in thin CA (I had sealed the top with shellac prior to gluing up). This worked very well, and the process went very quickly. Thinking of doing the same thing on my SJ. I bent my bindings this evening and test fit. But prior to gluing up, I thought I would check in to see if anyone has had any issues using this approach versus titebond.

Thanks,

Ken
Author:  Chris Paulick [ Mon Mar 23, 2009 9:40 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Who Uses CA to Glue Wood Bindings?
I guess you didn't see my video. That's how I do my bindings all the time. And top purfs.
Author:  David R White [ Mon Mar 23, 2009 9:42 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Who Uses CA to Glue Wood Bindings?
That's how I do mine...I think it's very common.
Author:  Rod True [ Tue Mar 24, 2009 12:09 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Who Uses CA to Glue Wood Bindings?
Yup, I do mine that way too. Nice and quick and you're scraping them flush in a short amount of time too. The thing I really like about this method though is that you can see what's going on first. You can get the binding nice and tight fitting without worrying about glue at all. Same thing with miters at the tail wedge etc...
Author:  Burton LeGeyt [ Tue Mar 24, 2009 12:29 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Who Uses CA to Glue Wood Bindings?
I do it this way too. I agree with everything Rod said.
Author:  Todd Rose [ Tue Mar 24, 2009 5:15 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Who Uses CA to Glue Wood Bindings?
Moi aussi.
Author:  SteveSmith [ Tue Mar 24, 2009 5:32 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Who Uses CA to Glue Wood Bindings?
I did the same on my first. I did the back first and used too much CA which got up under the tape and really made the tape stick well :? A bit of a pain but some naptha and scraping fixed that. When I did the top I used a bit less CA and everything went fine.
Author:  Ken C [ Tue Mar 24, 2009 7:44 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Who Uses CA to Glue Wood Bindings?
Todd Stock wrote:
This is one of those threads which probably should be retitled as "Pros/Cons of CA to Glue Binding Woods", with a follow-up poll for numbers, if I get the drift of your post.


Todd, I guess it could be. I never really meant it to be a poll per se. I just found this method worked so well for me, I wondered why everyone wasn't using CA. Once the bindings fit, they didn't need to be removed for gluing. I could easily see my joints, so there was no surprises when I scraped the bindings, and wait time was short. I sort of thought there must be some hidden danger if others are still using titebond or white glue instead of CA.

Ken
Author:  Chris Paulick [ Tue Mar 24, 2009 8:26 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Who Uses CA to Glue Wood Bindings?
The one other thing you have to watch out for is if you use bindings that are thick and you cut into the kerfed linings then you might flood CA inside the guitar. Just something to watch out for. I also will tack the binding in place by using a bit of accelerator. If I have a spot where there is a gap and the tape isn't totally closing it up then I'll push it in place and hit it with some CA and while holding it tight hit it with a drop of Accelerator. I also suppose you could dust the binding channel with baking soda and then tape on the binding and then when you flood the binding the CA will be accelerated by the soda and it's a instance set. Only problem that I could see with that is if you do have a gap and you don't have it pressed in then you may glue it open or the CA might not weep completely around the binding.
Author:  douglas ingram [ Tue Mar 24, 2009 8:33 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Who Uses CA to Glue Wood Bindings?
I did a few guitars with CA, and the current batch I'm working on I'm using Titebond. The tops are Cedar, and on my last one, also cedar, there was far too much wicking into the top grain. Maybe more end grain sealing would have helped. I'm not having this issue with the Titebond. Titebond still dries pretty fast

The other hassle that I found with CA is that I couldn't tell if I had enough glue applied, so I would flood it generously. Then I had a mess to deal with.
Author:  Chris Paulick [ Tue Mar 24, 2009 8:39 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Who Uses CA to Glue Wood Bindings?
Did you seal the top and the edge of the binding channel with shellac?
Author:  Chris Paulick [ Tue Mar 24, 2009 8:44 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Who Uses CA to Glue Wood Bindings?
SteveSmith wrote:
I did the same on my first. I did the back first and used too much CA which got up under the tape and really made the tape stick well :? A bit of a pain but some naptha and scraping fixed that. When I did the top I used a bit less CA and everything went fine.

Steve, I use acetone to clean up CA.
Author:  Bill Hodge [ Tue Mar 24, 2009 8:47 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Who Uses CA to Glue Wood Bindings?
I use it on my bindings and rosettes. Learned it from Charles Fox and he does that exclusively on his guitars according to what he told me.
Author:  SteveSmith [ Tue Mar 24, 2009 9:54 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Who Uses CA to Glue Wood Bindings?
Chris Paulick wrote:
SteveSmith wrote:
I did the same on my first. I did the back first and used too much CA which got up under the tape and really made the tape stick well :? A bit of a pain but some naptha and scraping fixed that. When I did the top I used a bit less CA and everything went fine.

Steve, I use acetone to clean up CA.


I thought of that later - I have a quart in the shop - I seem to have this habit of doing things the hard way at least once. idunno
Author:  WilliamS [ Tue Mar 24, 2009 11:11 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Who Uses CA to Glue Wood Bindings?
I've never used CA for binding but have been thinking about trying it on the instruments I'm working on now. Just a quick question: When you guys are talking about sealing the edge, are you sealing the entire binding/purf ledge or just the little bit where the end grain on the top is exposed? Does CA bond to shellac?
Author:  LanceK [ Tue Mar 24, 2009 11:15 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Who Uses CA to Glue Wood Bindings?
I stared using CA on my bindings and rosettes about 15 guitars ago and have never went back. Its just SO easy.
I use Behlens Shellac in a rattle can for sealing before gluing. Works great on everything from Cedar, spruce and redwood.
Author:  woody b [ Tue Mar 24, 2009 11:33 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Who Uses CA to Glue Wood Bindings?
Lance Kragenbrink wrote:
I stared using CA on my bindings and rosettes about 15 guitars ago and have never went back. Its just SO easy.
I use Behlens Shellac in a rattle can for sealing before gluing. Works great on everything from Cedar, spruce and redwood.

Zinsser also makes wax free shellac in a rattle can. I can get it at Lowes
Author:  Ken C [ Tue Mar 24, 2009 11:48 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Who Uses CA to Glue Wood Bindings?
Fantastic! This is what I was hoping to hear. It's not often when something that works "SO" well as Lance put it, really has few downsides. I'll keep using CA!

WilliamS, the shellac I use is the brush on stuff from Zinser. I usually seal the top prior to routing bindings, so I just use a small foam brush and hit the end grain on the top prior to installing the bindings. If you haven't sealed the top, I'd probably do that or at least hit the first few inches along the perimeter of the top in case you happen to drip some CA on the top while gluing the bindings.

Ken
Author:  Burton LeGeyt [ Tue Mar 24, 2009 12:07 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Who Uses CA to Glue Wood Bindings?
I seal the entire top with shellac before routing for binding and purfling and then brush it onto the purfling channels after routing. I have also been doing a preliminary epoxy pore fill on the backs and sides before routing for binding. I true up all the edges and then put the epoxy on. Then I sand back to level. It saves having to do 2 coats later and acts as protection against chip out on the binding ledge.

For the bindings, if they are bent well I find I only need tape every 2-3 inches to hold them tight. I wick in the ca between the tape and then remove it and hit the places where the tape was. Once this is done I sand the binding tops and push the dust over the purfs(but off the top). The I go around again with a very light squirt of CA. If there are any mini gaps this takes care of them very well. The I scrape them flush.

It is worth being very careful too about the CA wicking inside the guitar like Chris said. I try to double check any small gaps and block them first. If you run your braces out to the edge this is a big area to pay attention to. It is a pain having to ham fist your way into the guitar to sand a little spot in a corner. It still happens though, just happened to me this weekend. I didn't spot the hole it got through.
Author:  Chris Paulick [ Tue Mar 24, 2009 12:51 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Who Uses CA to Glue Wood Bindings?
If you spot some hole try the soda trick. Put some baking soda in that area and blow away the heavy stuff leaving the fine dust. Experment on some scrap first to see what happens. Dan Erlewine dyes B soda and uses it to fill gaps and chips.
Author:  Rod True [ Tue Mar 24, 2009 1:13 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Who Uses CA to Glue Wood Bindings?
Burton LeGeyt wrote:
I seal the entire top with shellac before routing for binding and purfling and then brush it onto the purfling channels after routing. I have also been doing a preliminary epoxy pore fill on the backs and sides before routing for binding. I true up all the edges and then put the epoxy on. Then I sand back to level. It saves having to do 2 coats later and acts as protection against chip out on the binding ledge.

For the bindings, if they are bent well I find I only need tape every 2-3 inches to hold them tight. I wick in the ca between the tape and then remove it and hit the places where the tape was. Once this is done I sand the binding tops and push the dust over the purfs(but off the top). The I go around again with a very light squirt of CA. If there are any mini gaps this takes care of them very well. The I scrape them flush.

It is worth being very careful too about the CA wicking inside the guitar like Chris said. I try to double check any small gaps and block them first. If you run your braces out to the edge this is a big area to pay attention to. It is a pain having to ham fist your way into the guitar to sand a little spot in a corner. It still happens though, just happened to me this weekend. I didn't spot the hole it got through.


I take Burton's "seal the entire top" one step further. I seal the top after I've installed and leveled the rosette. I give it two coats. This I believe helps with possible scratches when gluing on braces etc. No harm in it at all. Than after I route the binding channels, I hit the channels (both purflings and binding) with shellac again, I just rag it on ASAP, let is soak in (it is usually cured enough in an hour) and then start installing the bindings and purflings (I do them at the same time) although I've not installed shell purfling yet (I have zipflex to install on the next one).

One thing I stared to do on the last guitar was when the bindings were all taped up, I flipped the guitar onto the face that I was gluing (on the top if gluing the top binding) and I wicked in the CA from the bottom of the binding/side purfling. I figured this would help if I got to much in there so it wouldn't drip down the inside of the guitar, but rather just into the linings. Once that was done, I'd only use a small amount on the top surface between the purfling and the binding.
Author:  Chris Paulick [ Tue Mar 24, 2009 1:42 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Who Uses CA to Glue Wood Bindings?
Do you seal the top before you install the rosette and do you CA your rosettes?
Author:  ChuckB [ Tue Mar 24, 2009 1:47 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Who Uses CA to Glue Wood Bindings?
I used CA on the last two guitars. It is really so much easier than titebond, there is no pressure on staying ahead of the glue starting to set. The only thing that you must be careful of (other than those already stated), are the fumes the CA gives off, you must do this in a well venilated area.

Chuck
Author:  Rod True [ Tue Mar 24, 2009 2:00 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Who Uses CA to Glue Wood Bindings?
Chris Paulick wrote:
Do you seal the top before you install the rosette and do you CA your rosettes?


Just the channel so far. There would be certainly no harm in sealing the top before cutting the rosette channel, mind you there is sanding and/or scraping of the rosette to think about too.

So far, this is my top proceedure. Rough cut to shape, thickness, locate soundhole center, drill for router jig, cut rosette channel, seal the rosette channel, install the rosette with CA, level the rosette, sand the entire top to 240 grit, than seal the top with two coats of shellac. Cut the soundhole, flip and layout bracing, proceed as normal.
Author:  Burton LeGeyt [ Tue Mar 24, 2009 6:10 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Who Uses CA to Glue Wood Bindings?
I think it is worth thinking about the linings here too. I use solid linings and when I rout for the bindings and purfs there is no change in the tap of the box. Maybe a very little, but not much. I have built with regular kerfed linings and reverse and it is not the same at all once those channels are opened up. I feel okay about the CA method because of my linings. I know it works really well but if I felt the bindings were really part of the structure of the guitar (as they would be with regular kerfed linings), I would feel better about it all with, as Todd said, a few hundred pounds of pressure and the assurance of knowing that the glue covered the entire surface inside the joint. I am not saying that the CA isn't as strong, I just don't know that it is. I would love to hear if anyone else has thought about this and has an opinion either way.
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