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What airlines can do!
http://www.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10101&t=21600		 Page 1 of 2
Author:  Alain Moisan [ Mon Mar 23, 2009 10:23 am ]
Post subject:  What airlines can do!
Hi all.

I just got a new order today. A customer needs to replace her guitar I made for her last year. She wanted to bring it with her in the plane (she was flying back to her parent's for the holidays) but the airline forced her to check it in instead. They even charged her an extra 25$ for the extra luggage...

Here is how they handled it...
Author:  Ziegenfuss [ Mon Mar 23, 2009 10:35 am ]
Post subject:  Re: What airlines can do!
I can imagine the frustration...

I am sorry that this happened, but at least she came back for another :)

Stephen
Author:  Bill Hodge [ Mon Mar 23, 2009 10:48 am ]
Post subject:  Re: What airlines can do!
YIKES!!!! BUMMER!!!!!
Author:  Mike OMelia [ Mon Mar 23, 2009 11:07 am ]
Post subject:  Re: What airlines can do!
OMG!! eek

Did they offer to pay for the damage? That had to have been in a soft shell.

Mike
Author:  john williams [ Mon Mar 23, 2009 11:07 am ]
Post subject:  Re: What airlines can do!
looks like a gig bag under one of the photos;
was the guitar in a hard shell case when shipped in the airline hold?
Author:  Bob Garrish [ Mon Mar 23, 2009 11:38 am ]
Post subject:  Re: What airlines can do!
Mike O'Melia wrote:
OMG!! eek

Did they offer to pay for the damage? That had to have been in a soft shell.

Mike


Last I checked, the most they'll pay is like $300 for a guitar they damage. By the looks of the case underneath it, they would have paid nothing due to improper packing.

I know of one case of a classical guitarist, with a ~50K instrument, having their guitar (in a very expensive, climate controlled custom hard shell case) RUN OVER by a luggage truck after falling off of another (they stacked stuff too high). She didn't find the $300 to be much comfort. I know of one musician who can always get his guitar on with him with a certain airline, and I've seen cellos being taken on board twice, so there are ways around it (or at least with certain airlines). Maybe we should do some research and make up a good 'flying with your guitar' pamphlet?
Author:  Robbie O'Brien [ Mon Mar 23, 2009 12:15 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: What airlines can do!
I had an issue with Southwest a few years back and they actually paid me about 1500 bucks for the damage.
Author:  Jody [ Mon Mar 23, 2009 3:11 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: What airlines can do!
It has been my understanding through my conversations with the airlineswhile flying is, they only cover if the instrument dissapears, not any kinds of damage. I can see their point with that , (some) people would fly with damaged instruments and make claims.
I had a nightmare flying with a guitar, they lost it for three days , then left it standing up in my front yard, in the direct sunlight, I am not sure how long it was there , but there it was when I returned from work, the case was battered and the guitar had several new cracks .luckily it was an older jap made fireside box. but I would seriously think about flying with a valuable instrument. I think it would be safer to ship it ahead , at least you can see if the packaging has been damaged before you sign for it ! Jody
Author:  charliewood [ Mon Mar 23, 2009 4:12 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: What airlines can do!
That looks intentional to me... I know things can get run over by luggage trucks and so forth, purely bby accident, or carelessness
but I used to work at the airport depot for a major overnight parcel delivery service - there were malevolent little buggers working there who would jump up and down on a guitar case for thier sick amusement, play catch with fragile packages (intentional oooopsy's incl in the game) etc
I didnt work there long, I couldnt stand the mentality of some of the people I was working with....
Now not all the handlers were like that but the ones who were doing these things, simply > small minded people frustrated with thier lot in life, thier crappy wage, jealous of people recieving nice things - and intentionally malicious towards people and thier nice parcels.....
Everone likes to recieve a parcel - even if they know its coming and what it is....these sickos just loved taking the joy of recieving the parcel away.
I am not saying all handlers are like that but these types of people - believe it or not are out there,,,, unbelievable!
Thats SO heartbreaking - really!
I remember seeing that guitar unvieled here (remeber the rosette especially) and I remember thinking how lucky the person recieving the guitar was - a really nice unit truly.
bummer....
Cheers
Charlie
Author:  Alain Moisan [ Mon Mar 23, 2009 4:46 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: What airlines can do!
Hi guys!

I thought that the pictures would generate its share of comments! :)

Indeed, it was not a hard shell case, but it was not a gig bag either. Kind of in between, a Gator lightweight case. It doesn't have a hard cover, but there is plenty of hard styrofoam protection all around. I don't know if it was intentional, but whatever was droped on it had to be pretty heavy!

Funny thing, my avatar picture was taken from that precise guitar!

I don't want to name the airline, but I can say that they decided to pay for half the replacement value.
Author:  Kent Chasson [ Mon Mar 23, 2009 5:41 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: What airlines can do!
Filippo Morelli wrote:
Secondly, there should be no issue "gate checking" an item. That is, you carry it like someone who pushes a stroller, and they accept the guitar at boarding ... again like they would with a stroller.
Filippo


Gate checking can be a good way to go but twice now I've had problems. Once I got through 5 legs of a 6 leg trip and they made me pay extra on the last leg. Recently, I gate checked it only to be told at the other end that they could not bring my guitar up the stairs and it would have to be checked for the final leg. The other guy traveling with a guitar was furious because his was in a gig bag. Mine was in an Ameritage and I was mainly worried about it getting lost since it was now out of the routine system.

The problem is that every airline and every airport have different regs, not to mention the mood of the gate attendants on that particular day.

I try to to gate check every time but make sure I have it in a case that I feel good about getting dropped off a truck. That and insurance.
Author:  George Thomas [ Mon Mar 23, 2009 6:22 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: What airlines can do!
Kent:


Do you have airline damage insurance or general purpose loss insurance?

I am taking a trip next week and I hope the Hiscox case is up to it.
Author:  Clay S. [ Mon Mar 23, 2009 8:47 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: What airlines can do!
Hi Alain,
So sorry to see that happen. It is stories like that , that inspired me to make what I call the guitAR-7 model. It can be quickly disassembled, stuffed in a gig bag (with the neck part pinned over) and taken as a carry on bag for the overhead. If your friend flies a lot perhaps you could build something similar. I am presently building a size 1, a double O, a triple O, and an OM to this design.
Author:  Bruce Dickey [ Mon Mar 23, 2009 9:11 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: What airlines can do!
So Sorry to your client and for the loss to the world.

Imagine that guitar in pristine condition say a hundred years from now.

I know it has to really chafe a builder to see one go away like this.

Bummer.
Author:  Darrin D Oilar [ Mon Mar 23, 2009 11:06 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: What airlines can do!
I don't really have much to add except when I saw it, I literally felt sick to my stomach. What a beautiful guitar. :( I can't imagine what she felt, or what you felt when you saw it.

Darrin
Author:  Mike OMelia [ Tue Mar 24, 2009 12:44 am ]
Post subject:  Re: What airlines can do!
I thought that puppy looked familiar! ;)

Alain Moisan wrote:
Hi guys!

I thought that the pictures would generate its share of comments! :)

Indeed, it was not a hard shell case, but it was not a gig bag either. Kind of in between, a Gator lightweight case. It doesn't have a hard cover, but there is plenty of hard styrofoam protection all around. I don't know if it was intentional, but whatever was droped on it had to be pretty heavy!

Funny thing, my avatar picture was taken from that precise guitar!

I don't want to name the airline, but I can say that they decided to pay for half the replacement value.
Author:  TonyKarol [ Tue Mar 24, 2009 9:24 am ]
Post subject:  Re: What airlines can do!
Not all airlines have a gate check policy, or even a policy for guitars in gig bags or whatever .. or maybe its "no, you cant". I recently travelled thru the US from Canada, and the answer was usually NO, but it can certainly depend on the person you are talking to, helps if they play too !!!!

I use Ameritage cases (and a cover) when travelling with a full size instrument, and they certainly wont let you take that onto the plane. I am more concerned with loss vs damage, but thats what my insurance is for.

After seeing the photos .. all I can say is what happened is tragic.
Author:  Alain Moisan [ Tue Mar 24, 2009 12:48 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: What airlines can do!
Darrin D Oilar wrote:
I don't really have much to add except when I saw it, I literally felt sick to my stomach. What a beautiful guitar. :( I can't imagine what she felt, or what you felt when you saw it.

Darrin


That's pretty much what she felt like when opening the case!

For myself, I guess I'm more sad for my customer than for me. After all, it gives me the oppertunaty to make her a new guitar, and chances are it should be a better sounding one since I'm better than I was at the time she ordered it in the first place.

And by the way, thanks a lot to all who made such nice comments about the guitar! I appreciate it!
Author:  Kent Chasson [ Tue Mar 24, 2009 5:08 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: What airlines can do!
George Thomas wrote:
Kent:


Do you have airline damage insurance or general purpose loss insurance?

I am taking a trip next week and I hope the Hiscox case is up to it.


Hi George,

I have builder's insurance through Heritage.
Author:  Lars Stahl [ Tue Mar 24, 2009 9:58 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: What airlines can do!
Sorry it happened !! . Airlines are a.....holes when it comes to guitars. I just got back from a performance in Dubai. On the way there, I was refused "in Sweden" to have a guitar with me as luggage, they said it would be 150USD extra then !!! and thje reason, it was in a hard case !! if it would have been in a soft case it would have been for free !! Well I got furious. and said my plane leave in 1 houer, and I aint paying nothing extra they kept debating obout sizes and hard cases, so I said If I have a small guitar like a parlor in a hard case then that would be smaller than this one i am holding in a softcase etc etc. well it ended with me saying shut up to the person. then game the guards haha. but I finally managed to get the guitar with me inside the plane. on the way back from Dubai, the people there said , hey we´ll put it as sportequipment. no charge debating, not discussions. I dont like Sweden !!!!!!. PS the airline I used was British Airways.

Lars.
Author:  Heavenly3lues [ Tue Mar 24, 2009 11:07 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: What airlines can do!
First post!

I am loving that little airline guitar you have built there! Any more pics of that?

I was looking at one of these cases a little while back when I was planning on flying with my guitar. The case costs almost as much as my guitar, but its my only acoustic and I love it and would be devastated if I lost it. I can't imagine losing a luthier-built guitar.

http://www.casextreme.com/index.html

BTW, Ameritage has some good deals on B-stock cases if anyone is in the market

http://www.ameritage.com/listing.php?ca ... ne=B_Stock

Since this is my first post, I will tell a bit about myself too! My name is Jeremy and I am from Grand Rapids, MI. I found this forum while researching to build my first guitar. I am gonna put a new neck on my brother's old junky bass guitar he gave me, make it playable (it has about an inch high action right now and a short scale neck). After that, I am gonna get a stewie mac dreadnought kit and take a stab at building my first acoustic. It will probably be next fall before I can start. I got a few projects in the works for the summer. I will be building some kalimbas and doing some work on my VW bus, so the guitar must wait a little while. I would love to build guitars for a living someday!!!
Author:  Tai Fu [ Wed Mar 25, 2009 3:56 am ]
Post subject:  Re: What airlines can do!
Actually, I am thinking if you make the fretboard stiff enough you can just not glue on the fretboard extension, so the neck may be freely removed from the guitar and stuffed in a gig bag (the neck will go into a separate pouch in the bag or hand-carried separately or stuffed with checked in luggage) then you just carry on the more fragile part on the plane...
Author:  Alain Moisan [ Wed Mar 25, 2009 12:17 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: What airlines can do!
Heavenly3lues wrote:
I am loving that little airline guitar you have built there! Any more pics of that?


First, welcome to the Forum!

What do you mean? More pictures of the destroyed guitar or pictures of the original?
Author:  Bob Garrish [ Wed Mar 25, 2009 1:47 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: What airlines can do!
Alain Moisan wrote:
Heavenly3lues wrote:
I am loving that little airline guitar you have built there! Any more pics of that?


First, welcome to the Forum!

What do you mean? More pictures of the destroyed guitar or pictures of the original?


I think he was referring to Clay's guitar. Please, no more pics of the current state of that guitar, they're hard to look at!
Author:  Alain Moisan [ Wed Mar 25, 2009 4:52 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: What airlines can do!
Oh! I see.

Bob Garrish wrote:
Please, no more pics of the current state of that guitar, they're hard to look at!

I fully understand !
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