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| Side bending concept http://www.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10101&t=21592 |
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| Author: | Bill Higgs [ Sun Mar 22, 2009 7:48 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Side bending concept |
OK, do I have the basic side bending concept down, or am I missing it? Here's what I understand: 1. You can begin bending sides at around 220 - 240 ( When you see the steam start rising from the blanket. 2. You can begin to bend almost any wood (maple, mahogany, plain bubinga, lightly figured koa) at this temperature range. 3. Once you have the wood bent, you need to bring different types of wood, as mentioned above) to different temperatures, some higher than others ( per John Mayes suggestions) and hold it there for 5-7 minutes. Or: Do you actually need to bend the different woods at different temperature ranges before holding them at a certain temp? I am basically using a sandwich consisting of: Spring steel slat Aluminum foil wet kraft paper wood wet kraft paper Aluminum foil Spring steel slat heating blanket Thanks for any insite. Bill |
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| Author: | Andy Birko [ Sun Mar 22, 2009 10:50 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Side bending concept |
I'm no bending expert, but I saw the number of views with zero replies so I thought I'd chime in. I did find two question marks in your post, but the first one was pretty much rhetorical and you're not really stating if you're having a problem with something or just want reassurance etc. I'm guessing that you're about to bend and are scared, but I could be wrong because you didn't come out and say so. I would recommend the following: instead of telling us what you know, tell us your plan and ask for comment on it. Be specific, use examples. |
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| Author: | Andy Birko [ Sun Mar 22, 2009 10:53 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Side bending concept |
And another thing, don't triple post in the future. Very annoying. |
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| Author: | Tai Fu [ Mon Mar 23, 2009 12:06 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Side bending concept |
What wood are you bending? For woods with interlocking grains like Bubinga and mahogany try to use as little water as you can get away with, because too much water will cause the wood to ripple (like what happened to my LMI bent side). For curly woods take your time and use only enough water to get the bend going, don't do it too fast or it will break. |
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| Author: | John Mayes [ Mon Mar 23, 2009 8:41 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Side bending concept |
I replied in one of the other threads, but your first scenario is correct. Once you see steam you can go for it. Side bending is not nearly as hard as it seems to be. In fact it's rather easy in my opinion. One of the most easy and enjoyable processes to me. |
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| Author: | Michael Dale Payne [ Mon Mar 23, 2009 9:03 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Side bending concept |
I see no reason for bothe aluminum foil and kraft paper except to intrap too much moisture. If you warp the wood in aluminum foil them the moisteure can be applied directly to the wood no need for kraft paper. If you wrap the wood in wet kraft paper the is no need for the aluminum foil. not that said your stack will work but in my opinion most people bend too wet causing not all the moisture to be cooked off. This will permote cupping on the sides as they are not dry when removed from the form and the moisture will migrate towards the middle of the rim. Dry at a differnt rate and cause low spot to apear to the out side of the rim or high spots to the inside because to the rim not being consistantly dry very where. The longer I bend the less moisture I find is needed. One more thing. Don't get locked into a given tempature too much. each pice of wood will start to bend when it is ready. Steam is a good indicator but you also have to pay attention to the feel and sound. |
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| Author: | Mark Groza [ Mon Mar 23, 2009 9:44 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Side bending concept |
You do need the foil! Especually when useing spring slats as they will stain your wood badly if not used.This is what happend when i didn't use the foil on ash useing spring slats.And i had craft paper around the wood! |
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| Author: | Michael Dale Payne [ Mon Mar 23, 2009 10:29 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Side bending concept |
Mark Groza wrote: You do need the foil! Especually when useing spring slats as they will stain your wood badly if not used.This is what happend when i didn't use the foil on ash useing spring slats.And i had craft paper around the wood! I agree that with some woods spring steel slats kraft paper alone will not provide prevention of galvinistic staining. But those tend to be limited mostly to woods high in tannic acid. In most cases kraft paper is all that is needed. But if you wish to use aluminum foil tht is fine. My point was that if you use aluminum foil there is no need for the kraft paper. Just sprits the wood and enclose it in aluminum foil. |
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| Author: | Heath Blair [ Mon Mar 23, 2009 2:45 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Side bending concept |
if you bend with wet krat paper and no aluminum foil, your spring steel slats will most definitely rust. the kraft paper is just an easy way of keeping the moisture where you want it without making a mess. assuming you dont completely seal the wood up with the aluminum foil, cook it long enough and you shouldnt have any left over moisture. i usually will cook a side for 20-30 minutes at low heat after i set the bend. ive only bent a handful of sets of sides so this isnt meant to trump michaels advice, only supplement it with my very limited experience. i also would recommend just getting some practice sides and going to town. theres no replacement for first hand experience. find something super cheap and you wont have the worry of ruining some nice tonewood. i bent 3 sets of white oak from the home depot before i bent my actual guitar sides. you can get a pretty good feel that way. make some mistakes and learn how to correct them. have fun. |
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| Author: | Bill Higgs [ Mon Mar 23, 2009 8:11 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Side bending concept |
Thanks everyone for the replies. (Appreciate your patience with the accidental triple post.) I'll get back to bending! Bill |
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