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Double top rosette installation??
http://www.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10101&t=21545		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  Kristopher10 [ Thu Mar 19, 2009 1:00 pm ]
Post subject:  Double top rosette installation??
I am going to be starting a double top classical soon (with nomex) and was wondering when the rosette should be installed. Before the show face top is thickness sanded?? or after the entire top has been constructed?? I have heard of people doing it both ways and was wondering about the pros/cons. I like the idea of installing the rosette before sanding, but I am pretty sure there will be nothing to hold the rosette in place because I am thinning the top to about .6mm. Any thoughts would be helpful. Thanks.

Kris
Author:  Mike Collins [ Thu Mar 19, 2009 1:07 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Double top rosette installation??
Kris;
if you contact www.reynoldsguitars.com
Randy makes one of the best double tops.
He can help you.
I think he leaves the rose area wood to wood.
NO Nomex there.

Mike
Author:  LPMc [ Thu Mar 19, 2009 1:17 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Double top rosette installation??
If you can*, set the rosette in the full thickness top. Then sand from the back until you see the glue from the bottom of the rosette. Then flip it over and sand from the top until you get to .040", or whatever your top veneer will be.

* "If you can" means that your rosette is made such that the thickness sander will not grind rosette dust into the top or the rest of the rosette. CHECK THIS FIRST. Your thickness sander needs to be pretty accurate across the width of the veneers. Take very shallow passes. Take your time, and good luck.

If your rosette will not let you grind from the top, then continue grinding from the back - very carefully. Consider flooding with CA glue to stabilize a loosely made/glued rose. Also consider using a backer plate for running your plates through the thickness sander.

Larry
Author:  Brook Moore [ Thu Mar 19, 2009 1:48 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Double top rosette installation??
I have done it both ways, and there are advantages to both. For example if you are gluing up the top as a dome instead of a flat plate, then installing the rosette after the layup is a bit trickier both in installation and leveling the rosette. However this is currently my preferred method, since I use a full thickness soundhole binding.

Larry's method works fine, and is probably safer, but you do have to be very careful with the rosette once the plate is sanded down to .040"

Brook
Author:  Jason [ Thu Mar 19, 2009 3:33 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Double top rosette installation??
Mike Collins wrote:
Kris;
if you contact http://www.reynoldsguitars.com
Randy makes one of the best double tops.
He can help you.
I think he leaves the rose area wood to wood.
NO Nomex there.

Mike



Mike is right, it's solid around the rosette. You could try emailing Charles Fox as well. He also builds double tops and does seminars on their construction.
Author:  GregG [ Thu Mar 19, 2009 8:26 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Double top rosette installation??
I've done it both ways as well, I prefer to glue a partially thinned top to the core(whatever process you use) then inlay the rosette deeper than the top thickness itself, and run that sandwich through the sander to level the rosette(and get to near final thickness)and then glue the back piece on. The rosette in a .040 thick top does not want to stay put very well but it will work.

Cheers,
Author:  Jim Watts [ Thu Mar 19, 2009 8:42 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Double top rosette installation??
I do mine solid around the rosette also, In addition I leave a little solid rim around the perimeter for the binding process.
Author:  Kristopher10 [ Thu Mar 19, 2009 10:11 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Double top rosette installation??
Thanks for your tips...very helpful. I think I got it!!! :D The nomex and the soundboard are in the vacuum right now. That was a lot of work...I sure hope it's worth it. I ended up inlaying the rosette in the pre-thicknessed soundboard and ran it through upside down in the sander until I could see the rosette. I then used thin CA to keep everything together. I didn't use the external ring (hoping I will not have binding issues, etc), but Tim said it was never a problem for him. I used a thin veneer in the middle (soundhole, bridge, etc) for strength. This was a really delicate process and is quite stressful the first time around. Hopefully next time will be a little easier. Live and learn I suppose... thanks again.
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