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binding router advice
http://www.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10101&t=21544		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  8string [ Thu Mar 19, 2009 12:26 pm ]
Post subject:  binding router advice
I am getting tools and materials to start my first guitar. This forum has been a real source of info. . I would like your opinion for a binding router. I have a Dremel and a standard (big) router. I have looked at Stewmac's Dremel router base and guide and I have seen someone post about putting a small wedge on the base of a standard router and using bearing guides. I would also consider a laminate trimmer with any attachments, if that is the concensus. Any advice that you have would be greatly appreciated. Thanx, 8string (Vic).
Author:  Michael Dale Payne [ Thu Mar 19, 2009 12:55 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: binding router advice
The goal is to rout a channel that is square to the rim. Here is the deal, tops and backs do not have a consistent slope. It is ever changing as you get closer or further away from the center axis of the dome. So a router with a wedge base riding on the ever changing slope of the top of back will not yield a channel that is truly square to the sides. Depending on the guitar and dome dimensions it may work good enough but the top and back is not the practical surface to index to.

The best systems are ones that index the rim. After all that is the surface you want the channel square to. In fact the smaller the surface area that is ridding on the top or back the more accurately a rim indexing system can index to the rim. The part of the router that touches the top or back should only influence the depth of the cut, not the tilt of the bit. For this reason fixtures like the Ribbecke fixture and the Fleishmann/Williams articulated fixture are great choices for binding systems because they maintain the router in a vertical plane and use bearing bits that index the rim. Hand held systems are easy to tilt even when using bearing guide bits. For a hand held system two bearing indexing the rim at upper and lower positions help prevent tilting or at least allow you to know you are tilting. The Luthierstool fixture is a good example of a well designed hand held system.


So in conclusion when choosing a router the indexing system you chose plays a major roll. SO first choose how you want to control the channel (choose your fixture system) then choose the router. Laminate trimmers are good choices because it is simpler to attach a small footprint base attachment and because they are compact and will not interfere with the higher regions of the top and back.

2 very good moderately priced laminate trimmers

Bosh Colt variable speed
Porter cable 7310
Author:  SteveSmith [ Thu Mar 19, 2009 12:57 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: binding router advice
Hi Vic,

I'm just finishing up my first but I ended up buying a laminate trimmer and love it. Actually I've got three now, one on a dedicated circle cutter (Well/Karol jig), another dedicated to a binding jig, and the third is for general use.

I have two full size routers, one is in a router table, and the only thing I've used them for in the last year was for some stair railings. They're just too big, in my opinion, for what we do. I also have two Dremels which get used mostly for small grinding and cutoff tasks. I also use the Dremel with the router base (which is not very good, but it works) for inlay.

If I was strapped for cash I'd probably try to make do with the big router and a Dremel. If you can afford it you'll probably like the laminate trimmer.
Author:  SteveSmith [ Thu Mar 19, 2009 1:50 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: binding router advice
Here is a link to a thread that shows a binding jig I made which should help you understand the purpose of and dimensions of the 'wedge' or 'shoe':
http://www.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10101&t=20790&start=0&st=0&sk=t&sd=a&hilit=binding+jig
Author:  Chris Paulick [ Thu Mar 19, 2009 7:08 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: binding router advice
If you are into this for the long run and can afford it then make a binding machine and get a colt and you could go with the single speed if you want to save some cash. You can build the less expensive Ribbecke or universal machine. It takes up less space if space is a concern and can be used with a edge bearing until you can get the bearing kit. You will use the laminate router for lots of things too. You can never have enough of those routers, just ask anyone here. :P I have 2 pc310s a pc7310 and 2 dremels a pc plunge router and a router table and a 40,000rpm pnumatic hand piece.
Author:  archtop [ Fri Mar 20, 2009 10:45 am ]
Post subject:  Re: binding router advice
I'm doing mainly archtop stuff. The best alternative for me was a Bosch Colt Lam Trimmer (one of the cheapest and greatest trimmers available), check the reviews on this board. I use that in conjunction with the Stew Mac TrueChannel Binding Jig. If you follow the directions it's pretty hard to screw up on this set-up.
-John
Author:  Alain Moisan [ Fri Mar 20, 2009 11:07 am ]
Post subject:  Re: binding router advice
Hi Vic.

This is definitely going to sound 'out of the box', but I don't use any binding jig whatsoever. I use a standard router (the big one!) with the stewart-McDonald binding router bit set. I route normally and then true-up the binding chanels with a file and/or sanding block afterwards.

I've tried several different binding jigs and they all have their pros and cons. In all cases, if your sides are not perfectly flat and square, at the end, once everything is leveled, your bindings won't have an even thickness all around the guitar anyway.

This method is not going to give you bad results. And it's going to be a lot simpler than having to make/buy a complex binding jig.
Author:  Fred Tellier [ Fri Mar 20, 2009 11:31 am ]
Post subject:  Re: binding router advice
The Stewmac dremel base is great for inlay work, but is semi useless for binding routing. I bought their binding attachment for it and that was a total waste of money. I actually used it on one guitar and the bindings came out OK but needed a lot of hand work with files and chisels. The dremel is a little short on power for that type of work.

I purchased the Stewmac true channel set up and use it with a laminate trimmer, I have done 3 guitars with this and am quite happy with it. The binding fixtures made up with drawer slides also work well and are a lot cheaper to make than to purchase.

One thing I have learned over the building of 5 guitars is cheap tools are the most expensive way to do things, you seem to end up spending for the good tool at a later date or worse damage something on your guitar. If you are not sure if you will become addicted to this craft as the rest of us are, good tools are easy to sell or have non guitar uses and even if you loose a little selling a tool at least your one guitar will be built with the least problems.

I would also find a builder in you area or attend one of the gatherings that happen around the country to get help if you have problems. Besides guitar builders are a very friendly and helpful group of people to hang out with.

Welcome to Luthierie
Fred
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