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| SS2 alternative? http://www.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10101&t=21525 |
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| Author: | Mike Loukakis [ Wed Mar 18, 2009 5:19 pm ] |
| Post subject: | SS2 alternative? |
I was thinking to give Super Soft 2 veneer softener a try in an attempt to avoid strokes, breakdowns and other stress induced syndromes when bending highly figured maple. Unfortunately veneersupplies.com will not ship to my country, Greece(although they do ship to some European countries). I looked at the MSDS of SS2 to find out from what it is made of ( a nice trick learned from the MIMF. Always look at the MSDS of new miraculous products, that's how I learned to use vinegar to clean titebond from old joints for repair). It seems that it contains Diethylene Glycol Monoethyl Ether or Carbitol Cellosolve. Since I never liked to study chemistry this doesn't mean anything to me!! Of course by searching the internet I discovered that it is a "solubilising agent and an absorption enhancer" with many applications. From paints to adhesives to veterinary medicine. What I didn't find out is if there is a commonly available product that could substitute for this. I have also found the DIY recipe for a veneer softener containing water, aliphatic glue and glycerin but I don't want the sealing effect of the glue and I don't know if glycerin will interfere with the finish. Since I don't plan to make a trip to the USA to by some of that stuff (SS2) in the near future, I would really appreciate if you have any good ideas (recipes, similar products available somewhere in Europe etc.) about all this... Thank you all! |
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| Author: | John Hale [ Wed Mar 18, 2009 5:50 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: SS2 alternative? |
I read somewhere on the forum to add a small amount of fabric softener to the water used to soak before bending, that and the backing strip have been some of the most useful tip I've gained from here |
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| Author: | Darrin D Oilar [ Wed Mar 18, 2009 5:56 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: SS2 alternative? |
I had once heard that fabric softeners contained silicone. A quick internet search yielded this: One of the new classes of materials employed in fabric softener formulations today is polydimethylsiloxane (PDMS). Siloxane is a silicone based fluid that has the ability to lubricate fibers to give improved softening and ease of ironing. Other silicones used in softeners include amine-functional silicones, amide-functional silicones and silicone gums. These silicone derivatives are modified to be more substantive to fabric and can dramatically improve its feel. Now, I am not an organic chemist, nor do I play one on TV, so I don't know if the silicone based fluids will behave like silicone contamination would on your wood. If you have not had issues thus far, then maybe they are different compounds and react differently. Darrin |
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| Author: | John Hale [ Thu Mar 19, 2009 5:08 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: SS2 alternative? |
I've french polished mine with no problem is the short term as it's only been finished, and I used half a lid full in half a bath of water, it does leave a slightly oiled feel to the wood, that I just scraped through, I assume I've sanded through the depth of penetration into the wood, I'll lacquer/plastic coat the next to see what happens there. |
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| Author: | Michael Dale Payne [ Thu Mar 19, 2009 8:30 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: SS2 alternative? |
I would find a veneer supply company in your country. they will have a veneer softener or at least a resipe for some. I would not use fabric softener unless you know for sure that it has no silcone in it. |
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| Author: | John Hale [ Thu Mar 19, 2009 6:56 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: SS2 alternative? |
I know I'm only really on build 2 1/2 but I use so little and am cautious to sand through any affected areas, I've had no finishing problems with FP and a lacquer sample so I'm not concerned, though it would probably be prudent to look for a recommended supplier, I try to do things cheaply and this is a cheap solution which has worked for me |
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| Author: | Dennis Leahy [ Thu Mar 19, 2009 7:45 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: SS2 alternative? |
In furniture making, I used a glycerin-based veneer softener. It was amazing, starting from brittle veneer sheets, and ending up with something closer to stiff leather a few days later. I applied nitro lacquer and tung oil based finishes to projects made with veneer softened this way with no problems. Of course, with a side that is .08" (2mm) thick, the wood won't get leathery like veneer, but I think it would make a big difference. The stuff I used was called "Nordy's Veneer Treatment" and was made by or distributed by Rockler. I don't think it is made any more, but I think you will have an easy time finding a DIY recipe. I'd say, test it on some scrap material to see if the heat of bending causes any strange reactions, and sand and finish your test piece to see if the cooked glycerin causes any problems. Dennis |
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