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Would you care to recommend a Dust Collection system for me?
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Author:  Blain [ Tue Mar 17, 2009 2:55 pm ]
Post subject:  Would you care to recommend a Dust Collection system for me?
I’ve collected baseball cards, football cards, etc. but now I want to start collecting dust.

I’m looking for some suggestions on a good dust collection system.

Currently I’m using a Shop Vac and wheeling it over to each machine. (Ok. I lied. I’m wheeling it over to the drum sander. For every other tool, I’m simply not collecting any dust until after it’s laying on the floor and I vacuum it up with the shop vac.)

While I would love to have a Dust collection system that has hoses running to every machine, I just don’t think that’s going to be the best option for me since I’m working out of my garage and need to keep the garage door area of the ceiling clear. I’m also constantly rearranging the tools trying to find a floor plan that I like. Throw in a new tool, and the musical tools rearranging begins….

What I see as being feasible for me is one of these two options:

1. A dust collection system off in the corner that I have 1 hose to that I connect to the machine I am working with.

2. A dust collection system that I move from machine to machine to eliminate the length of hose being used.

Now I’m looking for suggestions from all of you on which route you would go, and what if any units would you recommend?

I’d like to try and keep it around $400.00 however if Everyone’s response is that I must with no exceptions spend 2 or 3 or 4 times that. I will certainly not disregard those suggestions. But please, before steering me towards those $1500 units, are there any that you would recommend in the $400 range?

Oh, and unless I want to disconnect the Dryer, I do not have access to 220V, so I’d like to keep it on a 120 V.

Thank you all in advance for your suggestions!
Author:  LanceK [ Tue Mar 17, 2009 3:15 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Would you care to recommend a Dust Collection system for me?
Check out Clear Vue Cyclones.
They have a portable unit.

http://www.clearvuecyclones.com/
Author:  Joe Sabin [ Tue Mar 17, 2009 3:21 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Would you care to recommend a Dust Collection system for me?
I have gone the shopvac route and it worked OK. Since Lillian mentioned the Dust Deputy, http://store.oneida-air.com/dust-deputy.aspx I got one of them. I got a hepa filter for the shopvac and together they work very well.

What I've done is I got a hose long enough to reach to the dust deputy from each tool. Then I connect that tool up to the dust deputy and fire up the shopvac. As you can see in the picture on the site, the dust deputy connects up to the shopvac, then the tool to the dust deputy. I plan to put hoses to each tool and then have them all lead to the dust deputy. I'd like having a blast gate for each hose, but may end up swapping at the dust deputy.

It's not ideal, but it cost me $150 to get the dust deputy and the hepa filter. Almost all the dust goes into the dust deputy and virtually none in the shopvac. That keeps the suction up and the filter clean. The effect is as good a suction as you get with your shopvac with a brand new filter all the time.
Author:  DannyV [ Tue Mar 17, 2009 3:31 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Would you care to recommend a Dust Collection system for me?
Whatever you end up getting make sure it has a canister filter with a low micron rating as opposed to a bag type filter. 6" or better pipe is best also. Check out Oneidas web site. They have some great little units. And if you really want to get serious and scare yourself into spending some money, follow John Mayes latest life altering experience here and look up Bill Pences site on dust collection.

Happy Hunting,
Danny
Author:  bluescreek [ Tue Mar 17, 2009 3:53 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Would you care to recommend a Dust Collection system for me?
Dust collection and air filtration are 2 things you need to think about in your shop. I have a Grizzly dust collector , it uses a 6 inch main trunk with 4 inch feeders. I can run my 18 inch thickness sander and 2 other tools without a hitch.
This unit has a 5 micron canister filter. It can handle 2600 cu ft min. As for air filtration , this is separate from dust collection and is often overlooked in most shops. This should be able to filter the air about 10 times per hour. Figure you cu/ft of the shop and multiply by 10. That will tell you what size you need there. Most air filters are 2 stage units. Mine has a 5 micron filter with a 1 micron secondary filtration. It really helps hold dust down , this is better for your health and equipment. Look at this equipment as investments and keep them in good shape
john hall
blues creek guitars
Author:  Joe Sabin [ Tue Mar 17, 2009 4:20 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Would you care to recommend a Dust Collection system for me?
I agree with John as far as the importance of dust collection. There really is no issue with quality of dust collection with the dust deputy and a hepa filter. There is great suction and as all my tools came with 2 1/2" dust connections, the volume moved is about as good as it gets. That said, if you have the room and can set up a dedicated dust collection system, by all means do so. For convienience and probability of 100% compliance in use, I think it would be worth the extra cost.

I also have a air filtration system and last week I banged a dust pan near the filter and it was like a horizontal garbage can. The dust travelled almost parallel to the floor into the dust filter. I can tell the air quality is better by the way my eyes feel in the shop. The air is certainly cleaner.
Author:  SteveSmith [ Tue Mar 17, 2009 4:28 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Would you care to recommend a Dust Collection system for me?
I would recommend you do some research, if you already haven't. You'll find that the stuff that is bad for you is the stuff you can't see and the only way to collect that is at the source with adequate CFM. There's lots of information out there; a good place to start is billpentz.com. The Oneida web site also has good info. I ended up with the Oneida 2HP Super Dust Gorilla because I felt this is what it would take to do a good job of collecting the harmful dust at the source. It is more than $400 and I blew my tool budget for several years but I'm glad I did.

Not everyone comes to the same conclusion but this is one area you shouldn't skimp on. Good luck!
Author:  Darrin D Oilar [ Tue Mar 17, 2009 5:38 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Would you care to recommend a Dust Collection system for me?
I suppose you really need to assess if you are really willing to suck up some dust. If yes, then it seems that the only real answer is to get a dedicated dust suckerupper and hardline them to the machines. Which means that you need to have a basic layout that works or is adaptable enough to change.

The reason I say it needs to be hardlined, is that you already dont wheel the shopvac around and hook it up. Why would the collector be any different? It just becomes a pain to do it all the time.

If you want to have one sit in the corner and take a hose around to all the machinery, it almost becomes more of a pain. You need a hose long enough and flexible enough that you can reach the machinery. In doing so, you substantially up the cfm requirements of your collector. Everytime you put a bend in the hose it decreases efficiency. Just the little ridges in the hose decrease the efficiency. The longer hose increases the resistance (or whatever the engineer technical term for it is). Then if you are taking the hose to each machine, you have to make sure you're not knocking stuff off the benches if it's not long enough to go around and has to go over.

Dust collection is a PITA and gets expensive. I think you'll spend more in the ducting and fittings than on the machine itself. To do it right anyway.

It becomes important to position your big dust creating tools close by (TS, jointer, planer, sander). Running as much as you can with as large a duct as your machine can handle and the shortest straightest runs is important. Use as little of the flexi-hose as you can.

I like the Clear Vue cyclones based on what I read on their website. I think that the acrylic has got to create some static attraction that helps get small particles on top of what the cyclone does. I think most of the 3-5 hp cyclones with the fine filters are the way to go, even though they're spendy.

With all that being said, I try to drag my flexible hose around my shop, collecting with my 1100 Jet with felt bag that I'm sure provides nowhere near enough suck. I still have dust everywhere, partly because "I'm just gonna cut this one piece and I don't wanna hook it up" happens quite a bit. The tablesaw with the zero clearance insert spits dust out off the blade and doesn't make it into the table to collect. Each machinery has it's limitations at being dust collectable, so it can take some time and ingenuity to make it happen. Like I said, it can be a PITA. I'm renting so hardlining isnt an option in my garage space. Someday. Someday.

Darrin
Author:  Pat Foster [ Tue Mar 17, 2009 5:43 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Would you care to recommend a Dust Collection system for me?
The site DannyV mentioned is billpentz.com Lots of info.

I got a Jet DC-1100RC and added this 0.5 micron canister filter http://www.wynnenv.com/35A_series_cartridge_kit.htm from Wynn Environmental. I use it pretty much how you planned, with each machine having its own hose, switching hoses at the DC using quick disconnects, which eliminates having to drag hoses all over the shop. My longest run is about 8ft. to the table saw. It's mostly smooth-wall PVC . Shortest is 3ft for the drum sander. Works OK, but is just adequate.

Pat
Author:  BobK [ Tue Mar 17, 2009 6:31 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Would you care to recommend a Dust Collection system for me?
I'm in a similar situation. My shop is half of a 2 car garage without access to 220 and I'm unable to plumb the system with pipe. I spent a lot of time looking at the Woodnet archive and ended up buying a Delta 50-760 last fall (1.5hp, 1 micron filter, plastic bag, garage friendly size with a built-in wheeled cart). If I remember correctly it was the best performing 110v collector in a Wood magazine review of 2hp and under collectors and 3rd out of 10ish in total. I'm still in the process of organizing my shop and dealing with the hookups, but I went with Rockler's dustright expandable hose. (http://www.rockler.com/product.cfm?page=21316. It's not the best solution (plumbing with fixed pipe is) but it seems to do the job in a small shop. It's main drawbacks are: it can be awkward to move, since it's not always in the same location it could be a trip and fall hazard, and flexible pipe saps the efficiency of your collector much more than a fixed pipe. (But it's working much better than my previous filter - my lungs.) Lastly, I'm looking at a Wynn Environmental canister filter upgrade. Pentz's site links to them, so they must be pretty good. Although, so far the bag filter seems to be working well.
Author:  Blain [ Tue Mar 17, 2009 8:00 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Would you care to recommend a Dust Collection system for me?
Thanks all. I've been reading the Bill Pentz web pages (great read by the way. Tons of information that I never even thought about. It's scary to think just how well someone could think they're taking care of dust and yet still have such an unsafe shop) and I've also been looking at Clear Vue and Oneida.

I am currently leaning towards the Mini Gorilla which is on sale and also if you order now (not sure how long "now" is), you get a free Dust Deputy DIY cyclone so I could upgrade my Shop Vac as well.

I like the look of the portable Clear Vue add on for the Shop Vac, but for more than double the cost of the Dust Deputy, I didn't find enough information on Clear Vue's web page explaining what this add on's specifications are. (you click on the "more details" section and it gives you more pictures and an explanation that Rigid does not want them to use their name, but gives absolutely nothing on specifications). If someone knows where to find this, please let me know.

I think maybe the Mini Gorilla right now, and then saving up and going with the Clear Vue Cyclone down the road. There's not a doubt in my mind that Clear Vue Cyclone's leads in this industry, but it's also something that one needs to save up for (unless they offer interest free financing for 18 months) :)
Author:  Dennis Leahy [ Tue Mar 17, 2009 8:06 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Would you care to recommend a Dust Collection system for me?
I'm in about the same financial boat, around $400 - $500. I am buying the Grizzly G0548 2HP, 1 micron canister type dust collector. Grizzly says 1700cfm, but sites like Bill Penz scoff at the high cfm numbers that most sites say they can hit. I figure if it is even half of that, I can run a drum sander. It does require a 220V 15 amp line. (I ran 220V, 20A)

It ain't a Clearvue 1400, but it is 1/3 the price.

Then, as cash permits, I'll add an air filtration unit. I may make my own, because why pay so much for a low tech device. (Anybody have plans? :D )

Dennis
Author:  Todd Rose [ Tue Mar 17, 2009 9:22 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Would you care to recommend a Dust Collection system for me?
The Oneida V-Systems look like a great value to me -

http://www.oneida-air.com/v3000.php

I'm thinking about getting the 3 HP unit (1285 CFM @ 3" SP), which is only $100 more than the 2 HP unit (1140 CFM @ 2.5" SP). Interestingly, the 1.5 HP unit (949 CFM @ 1.8" SP) is the same price as the 2 HP unit.

Given that the price is roughly the same for all three, is there any reason not to choose the more powerful, higher CFM unit other than saving electricity? Saving electricity is nothing to sneeze at, mind you... I suppose I should try to determine if 949 CFM @ 1.8" SP is already more than adequate for my needs and, if so, get the 1.5 HP unit. I only use one machine at a time, but my brain gets all confused when I start to try to decipher the info about losses in the ductwork... math ain't my strong point... I'm also confused by the recommendations to use all 6" ductwork when all the machines have, at best, 4" dust ports... this is one situation where I wish I had somebody to just look at my shop and tell me what to do. idunno
Author:  B Potter [ Tue Mar 17, 2009 10:00 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Would you care to recommend a Dust Collection system for me?
I bought a Penn State Industries 3 1/2 hp cyclone with a double 1/2 micron cannister setup,I think it is overkill for my shop it was $ 900.00 when I got it (now I think its $1100.00) but it will empty the bottom of my Jet 18" band saw when it has about 6" of saw dust in the lower cabinet.It is a super good quality unit and I would recomend that you look at their web site.It even does a great job on my contractors table saw with this unit and a Jet room air filter I have zero fine dust settling on flat surfaces in the shop.I also use 6" main with 5" drops to the tool with a 4" adapter if I can't rig a 5" directly to the tool .Hope this helps BobP
Author:  DannyV [ Tue Mar 17, 2009 10:49 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Would you care to recommend a Dust Collection system for me?
Todd,

Bigger has got to be better. :D It's pretty easy to convert most machines to 6" ports. Or add another 4". They probably have a name but you can buy inexpensive 6" stubs with a bend over flanges on the other end. They mount easily on 1/4' ply with a little silicone. If there is a 4" port in a machine you will have to remove it and screw the ply backed 6" in it's place. I sealed them with foil tape. I haven't figured out what I'm going to do with small tools like spindle sanders with 2.5" ports. After hearing John Mayes dilemma I'm going to be hunting for a new ROS with it's own sucker.

BTW I have the 2hp Gorilla. It's a long way from New York to the West Coast of Canada and boy am I glad it found it's way here. I'm growing rather fond of it.

Also BTW It's great to hear more talk and other peoples ideas on dust management. I am beginning to place this right up there with maintaining all 10 fingers.

Good Luck,
Danny
Author:  SteveSmith [ Wed Mar 18, 2009 9:04 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Would you care to recommend a Dust Collection system for me?
Todd, that V-System unit looks good to me too. I've been pretty impressed with Oneida's equipment and customer service. I've gotten real fond of my 2hp Gorilla but I might have opted for the V-system, if it had been available. My Gorilla runs at 1349 CFM and that works well for me. I've only got the hard pipe installed throughout half the shop and still use a 10 ft piece of 5" flex for the sanders and planer and a 6 ft. piece of 6" flex for the table saw but get good results. It will be better, of course, as I get more pipe in.

When you're comparing motor HP , I think that a Baldor 2HP motor should be more powerful than an import 2HP motor.
Author:  Todd Rose [ Wed Mar 18, 2009 9:58 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Would you care to recommend a Dust Collection system for me?
The V-System units are also shorter than their Gorilla units, so they will fit in my shop. I think they did that intentionally to appeal to "home shop" users, who often have lower ceilings in their basement shops, like me. The Gorillas and, from what I've seen, most of the other full size cyclones are too tall.

I can't say I've thoroughly researched all others, but Oneida has come highly recommended, and they certainly seem to have the quality, what with Baldor motors and all. I'm glad to hear you've had good customer service from them as well, Steve. I've heard that from others, too.

If I were going to buy another roll-around unit rather than a full-size cyclone with permanent ducting, I'd get Oneida's Mini-Gorilla or Cobra.
Author:  SteveSmith [ Wed Mar 18, 2009 10:21 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Would you care to recommend a Dust Collection system for me?
You're right about the height, the Gorilla has about 4" of clearance under my 8 foot ceiling and I used every bit of height I had to get it assembled.
Author:  Todd Rose [ Wed Mar 18, 2009 10:26 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Would you care to recommend a Dust Collection system for me?
BTW, Danny, thanks for your input about the 6" ports.

In situations where the opening is necessarily going to be constricted to 4" or less at the machine itself, does it still make sense to run 6" duct all the way to the machine, and then adapt it as necessary at the machine? I just skimmed Bill Pentz's web site and didn't find the answer to that question, at least not explicitly stated, though he seems to imply that the answer would be "Yes, use all 6" duct in all cases".

BTW, Bill Pentz also gives some good general guidelines about the HP/size of cyclone collector he'd recommend for variously sized shops (presumably to save dummies like me from having to do a lot of calculations), and it sounds like I should go for the 3 HP V-System:
"For those with medium roughly two-car garage sized shops who have a cyclone, they need at least a 2 hp motor turning at least a 13" impeller or 12" airfoil impeller. There are a lot of concerns with the airfoils that need considered before going that direction. Most with this sized shop find themselves far happier with 3hp motors turning 14" impellers."
Author:  8string [ Wed Mar 18, 2009 2:11 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Would you care to recommend a Dust Collection system for me?
I also have the JDS Dust Force. 1350 CFM, I think. It came with a mobile base and I roll it around to where it is needed. It is in my garage also and space is at a premium. It is a little bothersome, but sure works better than a shop-vac. 8string
Author:  Dave Fifield [ Wed Mar 18, 2009 8:04 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Would you care to recommend a Dust Collection system for me?
I spent a lot of time researching cyclone dust collectors in the past few days - actually, since the news about John Mayes being laid up in hospital with pneumonia!! My dust control was woefully lacking - I only had a small Jet dust collector that I've had since I moved to my current house in 2000 - it was all I could afford back then, and now is just too small and inadequate for the woodwork I'm doing.

I nearly went with the Clearvu, but in the end, I went with the Grizzly G0440. It has the best combination of robustness, power, and value for money for me. Coincidently, I just ordered it today. I liked the Oneida offerings, but just couldn't justify spending the extra $$ on their stuff. I also ordered the RF remote control parts from ClearVu and will be taking off the Griz infrared remote system and substituting this instead - reason is that I'm going to install the new cyclone outside the workshop, so there's no line-of-sight.

Cheers,
Dave F.
Author:  Chris Paulick [ Wed Mar 18, 2009 8:38 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Would you care to recommend a Dust Collection system for me?
I have the harbor freight 2hp collector that's on sale now for $179 and i got the filter for it. You might be able to get a 15% off coupon for it too.
http://www.wynnenv.com/35A_series_cartridge_kit.htm
That's also the HF in the links picture.
Author:  Chris Paulick [ Wed Mar 18, 2009 10:11 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Would you care to recommend a Dust Collection system for me?
Mine's on a 20 amp. circuit.
Author:  Chris Paulick [ Thu Mar 19, 2009 8:01 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Would you care to recommend a Dust Collection system for me?
Mine reads 20 amp. peak on the side but I've had it running along with a 3hp router. I think the 20 amp. might be more like a locked rotor current rating and not the running current. I planned a dedicated circuit for it but it isn't placed where I planned for it. One day I'll move it when I get around to installing pipe ductwork. :?: My recepticals are GFI protected in my shop too as they should also be in a garage in a home built since about 80 or so.
Author:  Todd Rose [ Thu Mar 19, 2009 8:09 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Would you care to recommend a Dust Collection system for me?
Todd Stock wrote:
I usually try to install the cyclone in unfinished space adjacent to the shop, which lets me park the motor between floor joists to pick up a few additional inches and reduce the sound level in the shop. Provided there is 4" of clearance from the subfloor above, that's enough to avoid reducing the cooling air flow.

In terms of what you get with the V-3000 vs. 3 hp Super :

- 1285 vs 1575 CFM (@ 3" SP Cyclone Inlet)
- 95 ft^2 vs 110 ft^2 filter area; both filter 99.9% of .2-2 micron test material
- Standard tripod stand for V-3000 versus wall bracket for Gorilla (floor stands limit access and may not fit in a closet or other space used for soundproofing)
- 75 dB versus 80-82 dB (@ 10')
- 85" x 48" x 48" (with tripod; optional wall bracket brings that down to 85" x 45" x 24") versus 95" x 52" x 27"
- 6" vs. 8" intake/vane

One way to look at this is that the V-3000 is purpose designed for a small shop with relatively short 6" runs, while the Gorilla is really a general purpose cyclone which will work in a broader range of shops, and handle longer runs from an 8" main. The extra 290 CFM translates to the ability to run two stationary machines at one time, which I often end up doing with students in the shop or when milling wood (band saw & sander; table saw and jointer). The extra filter area means better fines handling and longer periods between cleaning the cake. The longer body on the Gorilla means that you'll need at least 8' of space (7-1/2' plus space between joists will work) versus a 7' 6" ceiling (7' plus joist space) for the V-3000.

Suggestions? Unless height is critical, the Gorilla will provide better performance, and will allow use in a larger shop should you upgrade space or build a dedicated space.


Thanks for your detailed comparison, Todd. In my case, my shop ceiling is finished at 7' 7", and there is no adjacent space to put the collector in. So, the height is a limiting factor, but the good news is that the V-3000 will fit. I will probably build a closet for it in the corner to help keep the noise down.

I already have a 220v receptacle on a 30 amp circuit in that corner.
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