So, use the force?
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| Neck Angle Alignment Guide ? http://www.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10101&t=21500 |
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| Author: | Jim_H [ Mon Mar 16, 2009 10:20 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Neck Angle Alignment Guide ? |
Hi all, I've recently made the transition from lurker (i.e. info sponge) to poster. I'm working on my first build, which you can see in my photo journal here. http://gallery.me.com/jim_hansen#100024 ... &view=grid I'm just about to the point where I'm ready to final fit the neck, and have been thinking (probably way too much) about a fool proof way to do this. Yesterday I stumbled on the Larrivee factory video's on youtube, and at several times during the videos you can see the tech's using a long alignment guide/gauge to check the neck angle (not the left/right, but the angle). You can see a quick shot of someone checking the angle on a freshly glued neck in this video just after the 3:00 minute mark. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wcJVh-kOXhg My question is, are these guides/gauges something one can make ? Or purchase? If they are a one-off item for each guitar/style it may not make sense to spend the extra time building the guide, but if the neck angle, bridge height geometry is (or should be) the same on every guitar, then buying or making of of these makes a lot of sense. Thoughts? |
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| Author: | L. Presnall [ Tue Mar 17, 2009 12:15 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Neck Angle Alignment Guide ? |
Jim_H wrote: Hi all, I've recently made the transition from lurker (i.e. info sponge) to poster. I'm working on my first build, which you can see in my photo journal here. http://gallery.me.com/jim_hansen#100024 ... &view=grid I'm just about to the point where I'm ready to final fit the neck, and have been thinking (probably way too much) about a fool proof way to do this. Yesterday I stumbled on the Larrivee factory video's on youtube, and at several times during the videos you can see the tech's using a long alignment guide/gauge to check the neck angle (not the left/right, but the angle). You can see a quick shot of someone checking the angle on a freshly glued neck in this video just after the 3:00 minute mark. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wcJVh-kOXhg My question is, are these guides/gauges something one can make ? Or purchase? If they are a one-off item for each guitar/style it may not make sense to spend the extra time building the guide, but if the neck angle, bridge height geometry is (or should be) the same on every guitar, then buying or making of of these makes a lot of sense. Thoughts? My initial thought is that, at least for me, the repeatablilty isn't there so that I can use a gauge like that for every body, every time...even though the forms, molds, and radius dishes are the same there are little things that make each body, and consequently, each neck's fit a little different...I think the most beneficial thing is to learn what particular geometry and relationship we are looking for regarding neck, fingerboard plane, bridge, saddle, string height over the top, etc and go from there...if you search "neck angle" on this forum, you'll see some varation of, "straight edge along a fretted/unfretted fingerboard will fall on/just over/Nth over the bridge, with Nth amount of saddle exposed and string height is say, 1/2" over the top at the front of the bridge"...the important thing is to find out how to accomplish this for you, in your shop, for your guitars...just my 2 cents... Larry |
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| Author: | YJ John [ Tue Mar 17, 2009 5:36 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Neck Angle Alignment Guide ? |
So, use the force?
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| Author: | Jeffrey L. Suits [ Wed Mar 18, 2009 10:55 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Neck Angle Alignment Guide ? |
I just lately made this, to scribe the saddle top, by following the fingerboard radius, and suspect it can be put into service for neckset gauging, too. (and the photos I tried to upload, are--where?)   Sorry about the fuzziness, it's early, yet... |
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| Author: | L. Presnall [ Wed Mar 18, 2009 11:22 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Neck Angle Alignment Guide ? |
YJ John wrote: So, use the force? Sort of, yes!  But what I want to get across is that one man's ceiling may be another man's floor to Paul Simon, but one man's neck angle gauge may not be another man's neck angle gauge, or even the same man's gauge twice...knowing the relationship which should exist between the parts and the resulting geometry trumps a gauge or jig, at least, for me...just my one way out of many...
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| Author: | TonyKarol [ Wed Mar 18, 2009 2:14 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Neck Angle Alignment Guide ? |
as Larry says .. all neck gauges are not created equally .... I built the one Grit Laskin outlined in his FWW artcile years ago .. only to find its all wrong if you build with a 28 ft radius top !!!! You HAVE to make the gauge fit YOUR build geometry if its a static type gauge as seen in the Larrivee video (I figure its the same as Grit's, as he learned from Jean). I dont use a gauge like that per se - instead I use a tester bridge as I call it, dimensioned in thickness to be used with an unfretted FB .. when the lie of the FB sits just above the tester, the neck's set is good. Doesnt matter if its a 12,13 or 14 fretter, or what the scale length is. |
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| Author: | woody b [ Thu Mar 19, 2009 6:30 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Neck Angle Alignment Guide ? |
Here's what I use. I set my neck angle before I install the fingerboard. It's easier to sand the cheeks and dovetail that way. My homemade straight edge is 24" long. I position it a measured distance from the nut so the block on the end is at the saddle location on the top of the guitar. My fingerboards are .250" thick. My bridges are .340" thick. I shoot for a distance of .030" between the angle of my FB to the top of the bridge. Therefore the block, shim or whatever you want to call it on the end of my guage is .120" thick. These measurements may or may not work for your guitars, but the general idea is the same. Here's a couple pics. You can see it's really simple to make and use.  
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| Author: | Barry Daniels [ Thu Mar 19, 2009 8:56 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Neck Angle Alignment Guide ? |
Nice simple jig Woody. I will be making one of those this weekend. |
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| Author: | Ricardo [ Thu Mar 19, 2009 10:26 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Neck Angle Alignment Guide ? |
Wouldn't be easier to use the Woolson tenoning jig? It carves the neck tenon at the correct angle relative to the upper bout of the body. I used it for my first build and it worked perfectly. |
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| Author: | woody b [ Thu Mar 19, 2009 2:52 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Neck Angle Alignment Guide ? |
Ricardo wrote: Wouldn't be easier to use the Woolson tenoning jig? It carves the neck tenon at the correct angle relative to the upper bout of the body. I used it for my first build and it worked perfectly. I've got a real good reason why I don't use the Woolson Tenoning jig. I bet even Mr Woolson will agree with my reason. I have no idea what it is.  I use a Dovetail, but I suspect it could be adapted. Reguardless, I believe you would still need something to check the final angle with.
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| Author: | Ricardo [ Thu Mar 19, 2009 6:27 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Neck Angle Alignment Guide ? |
I used the Woolson jig for a dovetail. Other than a bit of final sanding to fit the angle was just fine. Thats the whole point of the jig. |
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| Author: | Jim_H [ Sat Mar 21, 2009 2:45 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Neck Angle Alignment Guide ? |
This is why I love this place. Some great, simple, do-it-yourself ideas. The "DUH! why didn't I think of that!?" factor is a little humbling, but I'm getting better at being humble. 
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