Official Luthiers Forum!
http://www.luthiersforum.com/forum/

Batch processing
http://www.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10101&t=21462		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  Ken Mitchell [ Sat Mar 14, 2009 1:32 pm ]
Post subject:  Batch processing
I'm having a sort of 'DUH' moment... I'm finding that making three guitars at once is not TOO much more time consuming than making one. Footnote to story... though I'm still a relative newbie to guitar building, I work at a school where we do a lot of learning through doing, so I'm learning even MORE while leading two students and a colleague through a guitar build each. And I'm surprised by how fast it's going. I know that there will be stages that will take us / them forever (that's where I usually step in and tell them to just leave it and I'll take care of it b4 their next session), but when doing multiple builds, while one guitar is in a drying stage, and you might otherwise be temporarily just 'waiting around', when doing multiple builds, you can be working on another guitar (!). Plus, for me, I spend so much time setting up little work stations, jigs, etc., that it makes sense to cut or do several sets of something while I'm set up. So, for my little three-guitar-build, the overall project is really moving along quite nicely.

I know that the batch idea is overstating the obvious, and I suspect that a lot of builders, for whatever reasons, just have one guitar on their bench at a time... but now I'm wondering...

What is the norm for people? Especially if you're building spec guitars, what is the optimum number of builds to have going at once? My limited experience (and my gut feeling) is telling me that three is a good number, but I'm sure it's different for different people.

So, to you all who do a 'batch process'... what's your optimum number to have going at any one time?
Author:  Laurent Brondel [ Sat Mar 14, 2009 5:37 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Batch processing
Batches can be great for processing rough parts.
They also multiply one mistake by the number of instruments (or parts) being processed. And that can be very sad…
Personally I work on one instrument at any one time, except for varnishing where I prefer to do a few at the same time.
I never felt there was any waiting around while building a guitar, there is always something else to do while the glue dries.
Author:  John How [ Sat Mar 14, 2009 6:22 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Batch processing
There are a few problems with batch building, the biggest as Laurent mentioned is multiplying your mistakes when you are a new builder. If you are still developing your sound you should consider each as an experiment for quite some time until you are sure what result will come from differing your designs. Another is it's really a pain to have several (more than a few) guitar in finish at the same time unless you really enjoy sanding.
Author:  j.Brown [ Sat Mar 14, 2009 6:35 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Batch processing
I use batch building as a tool to find different sounds. I build identical guitars and try to change only 1 or 2 things on it to see exactly "What happens if I do _____ differently ?"
Author:  truckjohn [ Sun Mar 15, 2009 12:43 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Batch processing
See... that is a question I actually have some experience with....
Not necessarily in Guitaring... but in my "Real job"...

Basically, the advantage in batch work comes in with the time for setup/teardown vs time for "actual" work... and in the ability to make a bunch of things about the same.

If the setup time is long, but the "Work time" is short -- batching is the way to go. If the setup time is short, but the "Work time" is long.. batching doesn't make sense.

So... if you have a job where setup and teardown is comparitively small....
Example might be hand planing a top to thickness. Out comes planes, scrapers, calipers, and sandpaper... you whittle away till your top is right. There is no advantage to batching this -- as you gotta go sharpen your tools for every so much work -- and it takes forever. Batching this and cutting 2 might actually take longer than Twice the time for just doing 1 because you gotta sharpen so many times and it just wears you out.....

On the other hand.... take a job where the setup time is comparatively large, but the actual "Work" time is very short -- like thickness sanding a top with a drum sander.... You set the drum sander to the 1st setting, and run all the tops thru. It takes about the same time for 1 as for 20 if you count setup time... maybe 10-sec per pass. Run the thickness down a click or two... and run them all thru again. The total time is *Way* shorter than if you sanded #1 top all the way down, then reset the sander and start from scratch with #2 top.

I know with routing binding channels, rosette holes, and truss rod slots... -- the time is *all* in the setup. The actual wood cutting part of a rosette channel takes like 10 seconds.... so it would make sense to batch these if have an extremely common rosette hole pattern.

Not sure if this helps you, but it is something to think about.

Good luck

John
Author:  Tai Fu [ Sun Mar 15, 2009 2:45 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Batch processing
I like to batch process when safety planing parts. It takes forever to setup the tools so I batch them.
Author:  Clay S. [ Tue Mar 17, 2009 6:01 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Batch processing
I agree Ken,
Three is a good number.
Author:  jfmckenna [ Wed Mar 18, 2009 9:18 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Batch processing
I always do two at a time one steel string, one classical. If during that time I get a paying customer I put down what I am doing (so long as it's at a safe storage phase of construction) and focus on the one till it's done. If I find my self waiting around I'll mill some wood or start building blocks and necks. It's great to have neck blanks, blocks and bracing laying around.
Author:  douglas ingram [ Wed Mar 18, 2009 10:03 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Batch processing
This is all good advice. It is obvious that it comes from experience. Some operations make sense to do in batches, other operations just have to be done on an individual basis.

Milling lumber in batches makes sense to me.
Author:  Tim McKnight [ Wed Mar 18, 2009 1:57 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Batch processing
4 -6 are ideal numbers for me. I have done as many as 21 at a time and never again!
Author:  Mark Groza [ Wed Mar 18, 2009 4:06 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Batch processing
I like to batch my lumber while i have the machines set up.I do other batching for bridges and necks as i can glue up 2 laminated necks at once.I can only bend 1/2 guitar side at a time, so that cant be batched to easily.But i do work on my next guitar while i'm building the present one.There's always inlaying fretboards,making rosetts and making heals while i wait for glue to dry on a curent builds.I don't like getting too many going at once because they can be in the way in my small shop and damage can happen too easy that way.But i do work on what i can while waiting to speed up my production.
Author:  WendyW [ Wed Mar 18, 2009 4:44 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Batch processing
I decided to build 3 at once since I work in a very small shop and every step that involves a machine means moving a machine and setting up. I am fairly new to this, having only completed 2 guitars, and I have just learned, the hard way, that you can easily repeat a mistake 3 times! oops_sign I have also learned to like doing more of the work with handtools, probably because I am sick of moving machines. Sometimes it is just easier to get out a nicely tuned hand plane than to move the jointer out, hook up the dust collection to it, etc. I am actually now considering selling my Inca jointer/planer and buying a couple of very nice planes. That is a whole other topic. I think building in multiples makes a lot of sense as long as you have enough experience not to repeat your mistakes.
Page 1 of 1 All times are UTC - 5 hours
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group
http://www.phpbb.com/