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| Epiphone 12 string bolt-on conversion http://www.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10101&t=21434 |
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| Author: | Bigbear [ Thu Mar 12, 2009 1:26 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Epiphone 12 string bolt-on conversion |
Hi Guys, Want your opinions on this one. Got an late eighties Epiphone in for a neck reset.Now i have not removed the neck yet but suspect it maybe epoxy in the joint,the fingerboard extension was a bugger to remove,also,definately epoxy onhe kerfing. Anyhoo,neck definately needs reset so wanted to know if you guys think it will hold if I convert to a straight butt joint bolt-on(cut the neck off,bolt it back on). Bit concerned with all that extra tension. Anybody tried this kind of conversion on a 12 string yet. Guitar aint worth much but it sure sounds good. Cheers,Bigbear. |
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| Author: | Michael Dale Payne [ Thu Mar 12, 2009 1:40 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Epiphone 12 string bolt-on conversion |
Bigbear wrote: Hi Guys, Want your opinions on this one. Got an late eighties Epiphone in for a neck reset.Now i have not removed the neck yet but suspect it maybe epoxy in the joint,the fingerboard extension was a bugger to remove,also,definately epoxy onhe kerfing. Anyhoo,neck definately needs reset so wanted to know if you guys think it will hold if I convert to a straight butt joint bolt-on(cut the neck off,bolt it back on). Bit concerned with all that extra tension. Anybody tried this kind of conversion on a 12 string yet. Guitar aint worth much but it sure sounds good. Cheers,Bigbear. First most epoxies are reversible with heat there are exceptions. Second, what is the model and year and have you checked the resell value? A change like this would destroy the market value and some older Epies are worth a great deal others have little to no market value. At each end of the value rating this repair is a bad bad idea. If a collectable, this should not be done because it will degrade the value. If it has little or no market value it should not be done because the price to make the repair would be better spent on investing in a quality instrument. |
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| Author: | Bigbear [ Thu Mar 12, 2009 2:06 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Epiphone 12 string bolt-on conversion |
Well,its an Epiphone PR-715-12-N,I date it to around 87',88' probably Korean.Not alot of info on them so maybe rare from that sense but certainly no major resale value. The guy wants it sorted,its his favourite guitar and I can hear why......its got tone. I 've had trouble with asian necks before with Epoxy in the joints.Also,these type of cheaper 12 strings tend to need neck resets every 10 years or so.So,I thought changing it to this type of bolt-on conversion would make future repairs much easier. But there is that extra tension......will inserts and bolts hold up??? Dowel in the heel is what I've been advised and it sounds like the way to go. Cheers. |
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| Author: | Michael Dale Payne [ Thu Mar 12, 2009 2:23 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Epiphone 12 string bolt-on conversion |
Probably the best is Dowel nuts but on a butt joint this requires (2) 1/2" holes perpendicular to the neck which will mean plugs will be needed on one side of the neck heel. here is a picture of my tenon neck using this type of nut Use your imagination and put the dowel nut s in the heel vs the tenon. these are far less likely to fail than inline inserts, with or without cross orientated dowels. Attachment: dowel nut.jpg
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| Author: | Sylvan [ Thu Mar 12, 2009 2:39 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Epiphone 12 string bolt-on conversion |
I have built many 12 strings with inserts and bolts. Taylor has built thousands. They are certainly strong enough and will work just fine for your application. However, have you thought about the problem of cutting the neck off-that is, you will be shortening the neck by the thickness of the kerf? Can you adjust the saddle to compensate or use a very thin saw? |
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| Author: | Bigbear [ Thu Mar 12, 2009 2:55 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Epiphone 12 string bolt-on conversion |
I use a japanese flush cut saw,blade is 0.20mm(about 0.007"),Have used it on 6 string guitars with no need for compensation afterwards. I like Mikes suggestion for the joint but as you said Taylor and other big companies do it with a butt joint and inserts so if its good enough for them! The japanese saw is great for making this kind of cut but getting aroung the trussrod and right up underneath the fingerboard can be a pain,can take forever. Any better ideas for doing this??? Cheers,Thanks again for replys. |
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| Author: | jfmckenna [ Thu Mar 12, 2009 3:50 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Epiphone 12 string bolt-on conversion |
I have done this very same repair before and yes bolts will hold up fine. If you think about neck tension at the heal for a minute you will understand that most of the force of the strings is trying to force the heal against the headblock of the guitar so there is very little torque forces on the heal. Bolts are there just for that slight torque force and to hold the neck in place. I've used a Japanese saw as well. Line the sides with flashing so you don't scrape it up. You may have to shim out to the same thickness as the saw kerf to keep the intonation correct. I think it's a great idea to convert to a bolt on neck for this guitar. Of course if I knew the exact measurements of the dovetail then I would steam it off. You may be able to find some one with that information. |
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| Author: | TonyKarol [ Thu Mar 12, 2009 4:10 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Epiphone 12 string bolt-on conversion |
Cant say for sure .. but a student had a newer Epi in and we were takig the old neck off, to make a new (it had a fubar headstock/truss rod). So we heat the FB ext, and pump tons of steam into the joint (or what we thought was a joint) .. turns out the thing is a doweled butt joint .... we broke it off and toasted the top around the neck block in the process. After laughing our butts off, we gave it to another student standing there watching us, and he took it home ... Good thing it was about 80 bucks on Ebay. |
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| Author: | Bigbear [ Thu Mar 12, 2009 4:16 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Epiphone 12 string bolt-on conversion |
You see this is what I mean about these asian imports,they can can be so unpredictable!! |
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