Official Luthiers Forum! :: View topic - OLF Classifieds Section

One comment on needing a subscription to get in there. By not allowing read access to anyone to go in there, you are severely limiting the available customers that can go there and buy. You may want to modify this to let everyone see what's in there or even post a reply, but only allow subscribers to create a new topic to sell something. What's the point to signing up if you're only trying to sell you stuff to other people selling their stuff. Allowing anyone on the forum to see what's in there will drastically improve the amount of potential buyers, resulting in a greater incentive for
more people to sign up to sell their stuff. idunno

we discussed and debated the pros and cons of this area for more than a year and this was the best solution that we could come up with in order to protect the interests of the sponsors (what if a commercial seller joins the classifieds area and sells for "free" while the sponsors help to financially support the forum?

...I signed up/paid for classified access ... but I don't have access yet.

Thanks for the input guys!
For now we will keep is as is, but your comments do not fall on deaf ears.
Lance

Author:	Bruce Dickey [ Fri Mar 06, 2009 1:56 pm ]
Post subject:	OLF Classifieds Section
The classifieds area will be the OLF's first paid discussion area. For $11.88 per year (essentially 99 cents per month) you will have access to join in and buy from other members or sell anything you may have lying around gathering dust. (Please try and keep this to lutherie items, guitar stuff, and woodworking tools -- don't sell your motorcycle here.) Above is a quote from Lance in the locked thread, explaining this new Section of the OLF. The Swap Meets in the past have been great, but only bi-annual. This is something I always thought would be great a classifieds section. Congratulations, I hope it works. I have a few questions, anyone......... 1. Has anyone signed up yet? 2. Any sales completed yet? 3. Is it okay to post a PayPal button in the thread so folks can go straight to purchase? Never used them before but know they exist. 4. I tried to load the Luthiers Auctions Page and got a blank. Has that feature terminated on the OLF? Thanks, Bruce

Author:	Michael Dale Payne [ Fri Mar 06, 2009 1:59 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: OLF Classifieds Section
I signed up months ago Bruce. It is working fine

Author:	Bruce Dickey [ Fri Mar 06, 2009 2:02 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: OLF Classifieds Section
I know this is one more question, but: Where is it? I suppose you have to be a paid subscriber to even see it?

Author:	Michael Dale Payne [ Fri Mar 06, 2009 2:05 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: OLF Classifieds Section
I don't belive you have to be a subscriber to see it but you do have to be to use it to sell. I think most are just listing their website and linking to paypal via their site. Oh and there have been lost of sales made

Author:	Bruce Dickey [ Fri Mar 06, 2009 2:24 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: OLF Classifieds Section
How do you find it? Edit. I found it, by scrolling down to the bottom of the Board Index. and here is a link: viewforum.php?f=10124 http://luthiersforum.com/forum/viewforum.php?f=10124 Repeat 3. Is it okay to post a PayPal button in the thread so folks can go straight to purchase? Never used them before but know they exist. Repeat 4. I tried to load the Luthiers Auctions Page and got a blank. Has that feature terminated on the OLF? I'm gonna go get some dust on my boots, cya!

Official Luthiers Forum! http://www.luthiersforum.com/forum/

OLF Classifieds Section http://www.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10101&t=21351	Page 1 of 2

Author:	WaddyThomson [ Fri Mar 06, 2009 2:53 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: OLF Classifieds Section
You have to be a paid subscriber the the Classifieds to log in to that forum. I believe there is a thread at the top of this forum that shows you where to pay. I looked back, and at the top of the main forum, there is a sticky thread that has a sign-up Here link at the end of Lance's introduction to the thread.

Author:	LanceK [ Fri Mar 06, 2009 3:20 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: OLF Classifieds Section
HI Guys Bruce, if you look above the deals and sales box, middle of the page, you will find a link/banner. It will take you the sign up page. Yes you have to subscribe to get in, once in you can sell your guitar related stuff - I think some where it says no motor cycle parts Just trying to keep it on topic.... As for paypal buttons, Im not sure you can insert HTML code in to your post, but you can try The classified section is rocking! We have had a lot of folks sign up and there is a lot of good stuff posted.

Author:	Zach Ehley [ Fri Mar 06, 2009 5:37 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: OLF Classifieds Section
One comment on needing a subscription to get in there. By not allowing read access to anyone to go in there, you are severely limiting the available customers that can go there and buy. You may want to modify this to let everyone see what's in there or even post a reply, but only allow subscribers to create a new topic to sell something. What's the point to signing up if you're only trying to sell you stuff to other people selling their stuff. Allowing anyone on the forum to see what's in there will drastically improve the amount of potential buyers, resulting in a greater incentive for more people to sign up to sell their stuff.

Author:	WaddyThomson [ Fri Mar 06, 2009 8:57 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: OLF Classifieds Section
In my way of thinking, it is less about buying and selling stuff, or being able to look, than it is about supporting OLF monetarily. Since the "Membership" option hasn't been offered, the Classified section is one way to do that, and it is a small amount of $$$.

Author:	Brock Poling [ Fri Mar 06, 2009 9:05 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: OLF Classifieds Section
Zach Ehley wrote: One comment on needing a subscription to get in there. By not allowing read access to anyone to go in there, you are severely limiting the available customers that can go there and buy. You may want to modify this to let everyone see what's in there or even post a reply, but only allow subscribers to create a new topic to sell something. What's the point to signing up if you're only trying to sell you stuff to other people selling their stuff. Allowing anyone on the forum to see what's in there will drastically improve the amount of potential buyers, resulting in a greater incentive for more people to sign up to sell their stuff. we discussed and debated the pros and cons of this area for more than a year and this was the best solution that we could come up with in order to protect the interests of the sponsors (what if a commercial seller joins the classifieds area and sells for "free" while the sponsors help to financially support the forum? trust me when I say we looked at this from every possible angle and this was the only way we saw it working in our community. it works out to be .99 per month. There is a good sized group that has already joined and quite a few nice things have been bought and sold. It seems to be working well.

Author:	WaddyThomson [ Fri Mar 06, 2009 9:13 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: OLF Classifieds Section
And I am both poorer and richer for it!

Author:	Mike OMelia [ Fri Mar 06, 2009 10:03 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: OLF Classifieds Section
Brock Poling wrote: we discussed and debated the pros and cons of this area for more than a year and this was the best solution that we could come up with in order to protect the interests of the sponsors (what if a commercial seller joins the classifieds area and sells for "free" while the sponsors help to financially support the forum? Well, there are rules. And you make them. If that happens, shut them off. Let non-payers see what is available. Not post. If they are wanting more, they can join! That stategy worked well on me at SMC. Mike

Author:	Bruce Dickey [ Fri Mar 06, 2009 10:24 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: OLF Classifieds Section
Had to slip out of town for a little while. Thanks for the replies. I have to say this looks great.

Author:	Dennis Leahy [ Fri May 15, 2009 8:39 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: OLF Classifieds Section
Zach Ehley wrote: One comment on needing a subscription to get in there. By not allowing read access to anyone to go in there, you are severely limiting the available customers that can go there and buy. You may want to modify this to let everyone see what's in there... "Mr. Gorbachev, tear down this wall!" Zach is right, *everyone* should have access to the classified section to READ, but not post (either a "for sale" or an "I'll take it!") Only those subscribed should be able to buy and sell. If the general population cannot see the classified section, they will have very little incentive to ever join. Dennis

Author:	Dennis Leahy [ Sat May 16, 2009 3:50 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: OLF Classifieds Section
Lance Kragenbrink wrote: Thanks for the input guys! For now we will keep is as is, but your comments do not fall on deaf ears. Lance Hi Lance, 1.) May I ask what are the considerations for keeping the classified section hidden from public view? I'm not trying to be a pest, I just cannot think of any reason to do it this way. 2.) A suggestion for the classified section: allow editing by the thread starter (not just a few minutes, but forever, just like the Swap Meets), and ask each thread starter to change the title of the thread to include the word SOLD when there is nothing left for sale. Think of Craig's List or your local newspaper - we need to know when the items are sold so we don't spend time reading all the way through a thread just to get disappointed at the end when we find that nothing is still for sale. A secondary suggestion would be to then have the mods delete the threads with SOLD in the title, to keep the Classified Section free of clutter. It is not bad right now, but when there are pages and pages of classifieds, most of which have nothing for sale, it will get ridiculous. If a seller has multiple items in the thread (not advisable - bad marketing) then they should not change the title to include the word SOLD until everything has sold. 3.) That leads to a suggestion for sellers: unlike a newspaper ad with an insertion fee, it costs no more to list individual items in individual threads, and it will be MUCH easier to connect seller and buyer if the title says it all, such as a seller with back and side sets, bindings, and fingerboards making the following 3 different threads: Waterfall Bubinga Back & Side Sets and Curly Maple Bindings and Ebony Fingerboards (slotted to 25.4) rather than say: Spring Cleaning Sale or Need to Sell Some Stuff Dennis

Author:	Kim [ Sat May 16, 2009 5:41 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: OLF Classifieds Section
All great suggestions Dennis, I do know that having the classifieds set as 'view only' for non-subscribers would see my hand go in my pocket to join. I am a notorious buyer of 'stuff', the temptation would be far too great to resist if I could see the 'stuff' that's for sale. I am sure many others are just like me and such a change would also attract many noobs who are on the hunt cause they need the 'stuff' the rest of us already have that others have made redundant from our process. Break Down the Wall. Hey, now there's a niffty marketing slogan for ya....Get Stuffed @ OLF Classifieds. Cheers Kim

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Author:	Chris aka Sniggly [ Fri May 15, 2009 8:56 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: OLF Classifieds Section
I freakin agree....Tear down the wall.... I bet your subscription rate would go up. People would see stuff they want......then pay....and then buy. In it's current state it should be titled...."The Super-Duper Secret Classifieds".

Author:	woody b [ Fri May 15, 2009 9:40 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: OLF Classifieds Section
I guess I need to e-mail Lance. I signed up/paid for classified access last weekend but I don't have access yet. I figured it might take a day or two. I don't have anything to sell, or buy at this time, I just wanted to help support the forum.

Author:	Dennis Leahy [ Sat May 16, 2009 7:00 am ]
Post subject:	Re: OLF Classifieds Section
woody b wrote: ...I signed up/paid for classified access ... but I don't have access yet. You do not have the required permissions to read topics within this forum. Me too, Lance, so when you're connecting Woody, please beam me up too. Dennis

Author:	LanceK [ Sat May 16, 2009 7:38 am ]
Post subject:	Re: OLF Classifieds Section
Thanks for the input guys! For now we will keep is as is, but your comments do not fall on deaf ears. Dennis and Woody you've been added. Its an automated system but sometimes due to Paypal it times out and does not complete the circle and turn on the account in the OLF Software. Thanks Lance

Author:	LiquidGabe [ Sat May 16, 2009 10:30 am ]
Post subject:	Re: OLF Classifieds Section
Here's one more vote for allowing non subscribers to view, not post in the classifieds. I'm tempted to sign up just to support the forum that I visit so often, but also know that I click through the OLF whenever I buy anything from the sponsors. I guess my main hesitation is that I sign up and find out the only thing for sale is uncle Wally's orphan bindings.... Much like the web's most trafficked sites (p@#n), if a person browsed through the classifieds they might see something they liked, get excited, and whip out their... credit card.

Author:	Chris Paulick [ Sat May 16, 2009 2:56 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: OLF Classifieds Section
I'm vote for the view to everyone also. What can it hurt? Nice to see what you are paying for. There is just a phycological aspect to it. When you donate you know what you are donating for and when you are buying into a subscription you like to know what you are buying into.

Author:	Peter J [ Sat May 16, 2009 4:50 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: OLF Classifieds Section
Good suggestions Dennis ! I agree. If all could view the classifieds and there was a forum member who had not yet subscribed to them and they saw something for sale that was a "just gotta have me one of those" type items, it might even help to increase the number of subscribers.

Author:	Brock Poling [ Sat May 16, 2009 6:44 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: OLF Classifieds Section
Yeah, we hear you about being free to view. We do. But our primary concern with this feature has always been protecting the interests of the sponsors (afterall they pay the bills here and fund our new development ideas). Our primary concern is that quasi-professional sellers, join the classifieds area and start selling a lot of commercial product. That dilutes the value of the sponsor's investment and is a disincentive for them to continue their sponsorship. The sponsors are very sensitive to the commercial activity on the OLF being on a level playing field (as they should be). Our solution, good, bad or otherwise, was to make access to the classifieds area private for paying subscribers (afterall it works out to be ONLY .99/mo) it may not eliminate this problem entirely, but at least it isolates it. Besides there have been a lot of great things bought and sold in the classifieds area. We think we do a pretty good job of balancing the interests of the community and the commercial content and keep our mind open to new ideas (our own or yours). Sometimes these features don't always get implemented the way you might like, but we work hard to provide them. Regarding the editing feature, I think that is a fine idea to allow those threads to remain editable, but we put special code into the site to shut off the edit ability after 20 minutes so we will have to check to see what it will take to have one Topic that is exempt from the norm. But I agree it would be helpful. If we can provide that, we will. I also agree about sellers keeping the idea of a "store front" within their discussion topic, but we are not going to police it and make it happen that way. I think if everyone is in agreement that is how it should work we should, as a community, try to encourage/enforce that behavior. With respect to the swap meets, that was also something that Lance and I discussed at length: Do we need swap meets now that we have the classifieds area? And I think after the dust cleared we said "yes" we think there is still value in having the swap meets as separate events. Not because of the commerce necessarily, but because they are a ton of fun, almost everyone participates, and there seems to be a huge word of mouth within the community and we see LOTS and LOTS of new faces during these times. Some folks decide to stick around after the SM is over. So we think they are good community builders in addition to the commercial value they provide to buy or sell your stuff.

Author:	Blain [ Sat May 16, 2009 10:02 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: OLF Classifieds Section
One thing that might make putting the classifieds visible to everyone a bad idea is this: Suppose George puts an ad up on the classifieds and Henry (a non subscriber) sees George's ad and sends George a PM that he'll take the item that's up for sale. George doesn't have the ability to see if Henry is a paid subscriber but assumes he is (or just doesn't care because his item is sold) The names mentioned above have been changed to protect the identity of the individuals. I say if you want to see what's up for sale, pay for the subscription. It's only $0.99 per month. It's not like its a huge price that needs to be thought about long and hard before making the plunge. If you pay for it and you don't like what you see (doubt it), at least you're supporting the OLF. That in itself is enough reason to join. Do you want to turn on your computer tomorrow and try to log into the OLF but it no longer exists? One vote from me for keeping it as is.