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How to prepare Epoxy from LMI(All Wood Glue)
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Author:  LuthierSupplier [ Tue Mar 03, 2009 3:58 pm ]
Post subject:  How to prepare Epoxy from LMI(All Wood Glue)
I want to start glueing my fretboards using epoxy, and I understand that Rick Turner uses this All Wood Glue Epoxy from LMI. I got some, and it really doesn't explain how to prepare it. Can someone run through the exact steps for getting this stuff prepared? I know you have to mix it, but do you squeeze it out in equal parts, and then do you put it in a heated pot like a double boiler similar to hot hide glue? It states if you get it to 100 degrees F, it will cure faster. Thanks in advance for the help!
Author:  Hesh [ Tue Mar 03, 2009 5:26 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: How to prepare Epoxy from LMI(All Wood Glue)
Hi Tracy - Smith's all wood epoxy from LMI is probably Bob Smith's epoxy which is a very good epoxy product. According to LMI the mix ratio is 1:1 and they also say that it is somewhat forgiving in the mix ratio.

I always weigh epoxy when mixing it because the two different viscosities make the puddle sizes difficult for at least me to judge.

Approximately 10 - 12 ml of mixed epoxy will be enough to do a fret board on a guitar.

The statement about heating it is confusing to me so I just would not heat it.

When I epoxy a fret board I use something, pins, little dowels, what ever you have and don't want.... :D to pin the fret board in position and register off since epoxy is pretty slippery until it cures. I have used either a fret board gluing caul from John Watkins or my Stew-Mac radius sanding beam, both with waxed paper....., as the caul for clamping and applying even pressure.

I have been buttering up both the neck and fret board with epoxy taking care to not get it in the truss rod or TR slot and then clamping. I have not been using any thickener so far with good results and because I don't want a big, stinkin, visible glue line.

You can clean up squeeze-out with a cloth or paper towel dampened with rubbing alcohol or denatured alcohol.

I hope this helps bro.
Author:  Burton LeGeyt [ Tue Mar 03, 2009 5:27 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: How to prepare Epoxy from LMI(All Wood Glue)
Tracy,

I mix it 1 to 1 by volume in a small plastic cup with a stick. No need to heat it or anything, at normal 70 degree temps it works fine. I always leave it at least overnight clamped up. The darker part is much thicker than the clear one, I couldn't get it to come out of the nozzle, I just take the tops off and it is thick enough to squeeze out that way. I really like the stuff. I did find once that it didn't stick well to CF but that was on one guitar out of 7 or 8 I have used it on and the others are fine, it could easily have been something else.
Author:  Hesh [ Tue Mar 03, 2009 5:31 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: How to prepare Epoxy from LMI(All Wood Glue)
Burton my friend not to high-jack here but I have been working with CF lately and learned a trick from Link. Epoxy will stick way better to CF if you scratch the CF up a bit with 100 grit first.


I hope this helps.
Author:  Fred Tellier [ Tue Mar 03, 2009 5:44 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: How to prepare Epoxy from LMI(All Wood Glue)
Hesh epoxy holds most non porous materials better if they are roughed up, it also does not soak into the grain nearly as well as most wood glues. That could be the idea of heating the glue, as the lower viscosity of the glue would allow it to penetrate better.

Fred
Author:  LuthierSupplier [ Tue Mar 03, 2009 5:49 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: How to prepare Epoxy from LMI(All Wood Glue)
Great information guys! I just thought you had to heat it, because it is so thick, that I can't even squeeze it out. Also, the directions just give you a heating chart that shows how long it takes to cure depending on what temperature you heat it to. I just assumed you had to heat it. But I'll apply it tonight and give it try. I glue my fretboards the same as you Hesh, as far as pinning using a thin nail, and use a special clamping caul that I make to keep the edges clamped tight.
Author:  Kim [ Tue Mar 03, 2009 8:15 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: How to prepare Epoxy from LMI(All Wood Glue)
As I recall, Smith's Allwood Epoxy should be mixed 1 to 1 by volume only as there is a substantial enough difference in density of the two parts to give an uneven ratio if mixed by weight. If mixing by weight, you will need to go 10 parts 'A' to 12 parts 'B'.

Also, as with most epoxy products, it is best to allow them to sit for 10 minutes once mixed and then, if there is softer wood, like mahogany, or end grain involved in the joint, you should first coat the surfaces and allow them to sit for a while, say 10 minutes, before bringing then together. If it is a really hardwood only joint like coco to coco which is unlikely to absorb any of the glue, then you can bring the components together right away as leaving them sit will do nothing for the joint.

Cheers

Kim
Author:  Jim Watts [ Tue Mar 03, 2009 10:47 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: How to prepare Epoxy from LMI(All Wood Glue)
Tracy, warm the two bottles in some warm water and they'll squeeze out just fine. The heat drops the viscosity.
mix 1:1 You can weigh it you like but it's not 1:1 in weight due the different densities of the two parts (as Kim states). Simply squeeze out two lines of equal length and width.
Mix well
Let stand 10 minutes or so and transfer to a new container or fresh spot on you paper and mix again.
Apply to both surfaces and let it stand for about 20 minutes or so, this let's the wood suck up what ever it wants so you don't end up with a dry joint. It also lets the viscosity build up so you don't squeeze it all out under clamping pressure.
Clamp overnight or longer.
Warm temperatures speed the cure of epoxy quite a lot btw.
I know some of this was repeated above so sorry about any duplication.
Author:  LuthierSupplier [ Tue Mar 03, 2009 11:03 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: How to prepare Epoxy from LMI(All Wood Glue)
Jim Watts wrote:
I know some of this was repeated above so sorry about any duplication.

Thanks Jim, and Kim. I just glued the fretboard, but I didn't do exactly like you said Jim. I mixed in a little plastic measuring container. I poured 2.5ml of Part A, then another 2.5ml of part B, to get to 5ml. This was for a soprano uke by the way. I stirred it up with a toothpick, then I let it sit for about 5 minutes. I used a little spreader to cover the neck and fretboard. I didn't let it sit at all, and started the clamping sequence. It was hard to clamp, so it took about 10 min to get it finally clamped down. Hope that was enough time. I then used a paper towel and Denatured Alcohol to wipe up the squeeze out. The joint looks good, but I guess I'll find out tomorrow. Thanks everyone!
Author:  SimonF [ Wed Mar 04, 2009 12:56 am ]
Post subject:  Re: How to prepare Epoxy from LMI(All Wood Glue)
Tracy,
I use it Smith's All Wood Epoxy all the time. I use it for rosettes as it prevents swelling of the wood and allows me to get a perfect fit and not have to struggle getting the purfling lines in. I use it for laminating my sides and I also use it for my fretboards as well. Epoxy cures via a chemical reaction that is dependent on temperature. So if you glue up your fretboard at 65F it will take much longer to cure than if glued at a higher ambient temperature. You don't want to heat the glue directly, and certainly not before you have applied it to the pieces needing to be glued. In fact, you don't want to heat the glue at all - that temperature chart is just a curing chart that shows the temperature dependence.

One nice thing about this epoxy is that it is relatively viscous and this is a good thing with Epoxy because you can starve the joint with too much clamping pressure - the higher viscosity helps prevent that. It let the pieces soak up the glue for about 20 minutes before I clamp them together and I only use moderate pressure - I don't use as much pressure as "normal" glues like Titebond.
Author:  Howard Klepper [ Wed Mar 04, 2009 2:01 am ]
Post subject:  Re: How to prepare Epoxy from LMI(All Wood Glue)
Try mixing in these graduated cups, available from Lee Valley and other sources. Makes measuring easy.

Image
Author:  LuthierSupplier [ Wed Mar 04, 2009 10:15 am ]
Post subject:  Re: How to prepare Epoxy from LMI(All Wood Glue)
Howard Klepper wrote:
Try mixing in these graduated cups, available from Lee Valley and other sources. Makes measuring easy.

Image


Howard,
That is exactly what I used! I love these little cups, I use them to mix my zpoxy, even great for my daughter to rinse after brushing her teeth ;)
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