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How many folks here color their necks?
http://www.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10101&t=21261		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  Ken Jones [ Sat Feb 28, 2009 11:48 am ]
Post subject:  How many folks here color their necks?
It could be my imagination, but it seems most hand builders leave their necks "au natural". I love the look of it, but it seems many factory built guitars dye/stain theirs to more closely match their back & sides. Here's a shot of my current build:

Image

I'm planning to continue the koa binding around the fingerboard and headstock. I think the sapele neck is too light in color, besides being a bit pinkish, to provide adequate contrast to the koa. So I'd like to darken the sapele to be closer in color to the coco. The only other time I've done this, I mixed the colorant into my finish, which looked pretty good, but caused problems in buffing -- some high spots wound up lighter in color than the rest of the neck.

So, I guess I'm just looking for any insights on your techniques, or your philosophy in general about staining/coloring woods. To me it's a bit of a philosophical no-no, as though I'm not respecting the wood's natural character. Also, what are some product choices that might work well on the sapele? I've got a couple of the water soluble aniline dyes from LMI -- the brown and amber, I believe. I've also got some light blonde shellac flakes. Any suggestions on using these to stain the neck prior to finishing?

I know, experiment, experiment, experiment. I will -- I've got plenty of sapele scraps to test colors on. I guess I'm just looking for any helpful insights or thoughts on this subject. Thanks in advance!

Ken
Author:  bluescreek [ Sat Feb 28, 2009 12:10 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: How many folks here color their necks?
I am a martinish style traditionalist and I like to try and match the neck to the body but I have done some natural mahogany necks. They do make a nice contrast . The color doesn't make them sound any better .
john hall
Author:  joe white [ Sat Feb 28, 2009 12:18 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: How many folks here color their necks?
Beautiful guitar Ken! [clap]
To answer one of your questions, about 20% of the guitars that I finish for builders have me color their necks. I like the look of the neck natural and stained/colored, I don't have a preference. As for technique, It depends on the look you are after. For the traditional look, staining directly to the wood is the way to go. This darkens the end grain and some don't like this. To color the neck more evenly, The neck will need to be sprayed with your color to get the desired look. You want plenty of clear over the color to insure that you don't sand through into the color. Here is a coco guitar that the client wanted the neck to match the guitar.
Author:  Ricardo [ Sat Feb 28, 2009 12:25 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: How many folks here color their necks?
Mahogany is a beautiful wood in its own right. Why muck it up?
Attachment:
neck.jpg
Author:  Ken Jones [ Sat Feb 28, 2009 12:35 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: How many folks here color their necks?
Great info, Joe. Thank you. I'm assuming it would be best to stain it prior to binding. I know I could mask the binding off, but I've got a thin maple pinstripe below the koa, and I'm afraid no matter how meticulous I am, I'd still get some bleeding of the stain onto the maple. Although, I guess you don't have that option when working other folks' instruments. How do you deal with that? Also, would I want to pore fill before or after staining?
Author:  Ken Jones [ Sat Feb 28, 2009 12:54 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: How many folks here color their necks?
Ricardo wrote:
Mahogany is a beautiful wood in its own right. Why muck it up?


Ricardo -- If I wasn't binding the fingerboard, I'd leave it natural. I've got another one I'll be finishing at the same time, which I will leave natural, so I'm curious to see the sapele under finish. It's definitely got more of a pinkish hue to it than the orange people associate with mahogany.
Author:  Flori F. [ Sat Feb 28, 2009 1:00 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: How many folks here color their necks?
I use the trans-tint dyes and rub directly on the wood. I pore-fill first. To do it, mix with water or alcohol (I prefer alcohol because I'm impatient) and rub on with a folded square of old t-shirt material. Wait for it to dry completely. Whatever you do, you don't want to sand through to the color and wind up trying to fix a light spot. That's a nightmare. Don't ask me how I know. :?

If you go with alcohol, I'd suggest starting with a lighter cut (less dye, more alcohol). I use a small ramekin with just a few drops of dye. You can use whatever color you want. They make a variety. If you want to darken the edges, just keep rubbing there. Or you could switch colors and blend.

There's a short video somewhere on the web about making a burst finish with these dyes. It's the same basic technique and might be helpful to watch. (Sorry I don't have a link.)

You might want to throw down some rags while you work and where disposable gloves. The dyes stain everything they touch.

Hope that's useful.

Flori
Author:  Arnt Rian [ Sat Feb 28, 2009 1:10 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: How many folks here color their necks?
I sometimes color mahogany, for example to match the colors of the backs and sides, other times because the particular piece of mahogany is rather drab, or I just feel like it... I usually rub the dyes directly on the bare wood because I like the look, but like Joe says, it is different than putting the colors in the finish. Test on scraps and see what you like!

To avoid dying wooden purfling lines you can mask them and follow up with scraping the leaks, or you can 'paint' some lacquer over them before you start rubbing the colors.

Here's a IRW guitar with a mahogany neck, dyed with Colortone liquid stains from Stewmac. I used medium brown, tobacco brown and possibly some vintage amber, all reduced in alcohol and applied to the bare wood with a rag. This instrument was then finished with nitro.

Image
Author:  Ken Jones [ Sat Feb 28, 2009 10:45 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: How many folks here color their necks?
Thanks Flori and Arnt for your insights. I feel a bit more confident moving forward now. Arnt, great advice on coating the purfling -- that makes perfect sense.

Ken
Author:  Mike OMelia [ Tue Mar 03, 2009 12:01 am ]
Post subject:  Re: How many folks here color their necks?
Is this some kind of funny question about us Southerners? laughing6-hehe

I love the coloring on that guitar back... how did ya do it?

Mike
Author:  Brock Poling [ Tue Mar 03, 2009 12:29 am ]
Post subject:  Re: How many folks here color their necks?
Potassium Dichromate is a good way to get a natural dark look. It makes the wood look like it has been darkened over time.

This stuff is HIGHLY toxic though. Wear a respirator and nitrile gloves at a very minimum.
Author:  Dave Fifield [ Tue Mar 03, 2009 1:30 am ]
Post subject:  Re: How many folks here color their necks?
Brock, where do you get potassium dichromate from?

Cheers,
Dave F.
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