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Thank you everyone for the warm welcome and insight. After hearing what you all had to say I decided to come at it from a different angle. Following the SJ plans to on the neck and bracing layout with a slight modification to the shape. I know it would be easier to stick with the plans on the shape as well. I have just always found jumbos to be - too curvaceous - (not a complaint I usually find myself making)

and dreads to be a little flat for my taste.

Todd - I enjoyed all the picts and tutorials on your site.

Here is my revised plan: The photo in the background is the bracing layout for the MP SJ with the new shape on top. The overall dimensions are extremely close to MP dreadnought listed on his site. Should fit into a dread case with a little help?

Thanks again everyone. I am in awe of all your projects!

Craig

Michael

I am extremely sorry about any violation or irritation I have caused you or others by posting a reproduction of your plan. Thanks for pulling it down.

Craig

Got it, Michael!

Craig apologized...don't beat the dead horse and continue to take the pound of flesh.

"Common since" indicates to me that it was an honest mistake with no intention of picking your or anyone else's pocket.

This could have been deleted, explained privately, and nobody, including you would have been publicly maligned.

Once again I am sorry for upsetting anyone. I should know better. The funny thing is I am an artist and deal with this issue constantly. The truth is I did not even think about it and I should have. Wont happen again.

Michael - thanks for being understanding. I appreciate all the work that has poured into your plans. To take a passion into a business venture is an extremely difficult thing to do. I am in AK and we are at least a couple time zones off from you. Did not get a chance to read your PM. I would have pulled it down right away.

While I am new to this forum, I am not new to forums in general. Much of the research I do for my hobbies and business is done online. I grew a thick skin long ago.

Craig

Author:	craigaboy [ Sat Feb 28, 2009 6:55 am ]
Post subject:	Guitar Design Input
Hello Everyone. My name is Craig Van Sickle. I decided to combine a couple passions. Guitars and building things. Although I am new to constructing musical instruments I grew up with a finish carpenter for a dad. Much of my life has been spent in the shop. My last project was a glen-L wooden boat. Time for something smaller and cheaper. I have a taylor gs5 and love it. Mahagony back and sides - western red cedar top. The image below was created on corel draw. You can see the photo of the taylor in the background. The teal outline shows the original gs shape. I would like to add a little to the waist. I have the OLF SJ plans for reference and am currently reverse engineering a set of drawings for the gs (for my own use) I have a master grade sitka top from alaska specialty woods and indian rosewood back and sides from rc tonewoods. I would love to get a little input from everyone on the shape. Will adding a little dimension to the waist require changing the bracing from the original gs shape? Will a sitka spruce top require a different amount of bracing than the gs5s WRC top? I hope to start on templates and molds next weekend. Thanks Craig

Author:	Tai Fu [ Sat Feb 28, 2009 8:27 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Guitar Design Input
I don't know much about bracing and stuff but I do know that just about every brand of acoustic guitars (dreadnoughts) differ a little... even when I make my mold it was off by a little bit due to pencil lines and other matters, but I think the amount of difference you're suggesting doesn't seem to require modifying bracing pattern by much. I could be wrong though because I am not really good with that tap tone thing so I stick with the tried and true pattern and do not deviate much from it. Perhaps it would be different if the difference is as big as say an OM or OOO. Just off topic though, are the bracing pattern going to be any difference if I were to add a cutaway to an existing mold? I can't seem to find a plan for a cutaway...

Author:	Wade Sylvester [ Sat Feb 28, 2009 12:41 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Guitar Design Input
Craig, It looks like your plan has only changed the profile of the body shape. You still have a 14 fret-to-body design with the sound hole and bridge over the same location. No difference in the bracing pattern is required because you have not “shifted” anything. If you keep the Hole, Bridge and scale length the same, you’d be surprised how much you can “mess with” the body shape and still have it sound like a guitar. You can also get away with shifting things relative to each other as long as you are aware of how this could change tonal response etc.. A few rules of thumb need to be fallowed like making sure your X brace crosses the wings of your bridge for example. I say, Go for it! Tai, A cutaway just shortens the braces in the upper bout. No big deal.

Author:	Rod True [ Sat Feb 28, 2009 12:57 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Guitar Design Input
Craig, welcome to the OLF. You're proposed change is very small and would not change the bracing shape at all. If you like the body shape you have there, that's great. My suggestion to you, as this is your first guitar is to follow the bracing plan on the OLF SJ plans you have. You will produce yourself a good sounding guitar and better (IMO) than if you were to use Taylor's bracing design. Don't worry about the difference between spruce and cedar right now. You have (regardless of your former experience) a long way to go before you'll be able to come to some conclusion regarding the bracing and what changes to the bracing pattern and shape will effect the tonal outcome. This is not meant as an offence, but rather just helping you to get through the first couple of builds. Follow the plan and you'll be well on your way. Good luck with your construction. Let us know if (and when) you need help with something. And show us some more pictures along the way. Cheers.

Author:	Hesh [ Sat Feb 28, 2009 3:21 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Guitar Design Input
Craig welcome to the OLF!

Official Luthiers Forum! http://www.luthiersforum.com/forum/

Guitar Design Input http://www.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10101&t=21256	Page 1 of 1

Author:	Stephen Boone [ Sat Feb 28, 2009 6:56 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Guitar Design Input
Hello Craig and Welcome! I personally would follow the OLF-SJ plan to the letter as best I could and worry about modifying design on a future build. ( I will start my sj in a few weeks) I have found that: One build is not enough AND Design is one thing and building as a different thing. I am on my second build and the way I am going about it is VERY different from the way I built the first. My third will be different yet again. When I have built another dozen or so and worked out a lot of the kinks in the process then maybe I will try my hand at design. Good luck either way, The people here are incredible and will help all they can for sure.(me too)

Author:	craigaboy [ Sat Feb 28, 2009 8:32 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Guitar Design Input
Thank you everyone for the warm welcome and insight. After hearing what you all had to say I decided to come at it from a different angle. Following the SJ plans to on the neck and bracing layout with a slight modification to the shape. I know it would be easier to stick with the plans on the shape as well. I have just always found jumbos to be - too curvaceous - (not a complaint I usually find myself making) and dreads to be a little flat for my taste. Todd - I enjoyed all the picts and tutorials on your site. Here is my revised plan: The photo in the background is the bracing layout for the MP SJ with the new shape on top. The overall dimensions are extremely close to MP dreadnought listed on his site. Should fit into a dread case with a little help? Thanks again everyone. I am in awe of all your projects! Craig

Author:	craigaboy [ Sun Mar 01, 2009 11:18 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Guitar Design Input
I worked all day today on finishing up the design. I ended up making the body of the guitar slightly asymmetrical. It deviates from the MP SJ profile less than you would think. A couple braces will have to be 1/4-1/2" longer or shorter. I pulled out my gs and started taping things to the body to get it to sit in my lap the way I would like. Then stretched and pulled curves on coreldraw until I got the shape right. Thanks again for your input everyone. Craig

Author:	SteveSmith [ Mon Mar 02, 2009 6:36 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Guitar Design Input
Interesting shape; I'm honestly not sure if the asymmetry appeals to me or not. Of course its only important that it appeals to you. Might be a bit more comfortable to play the way you have the lower bout moved up on the bass side. Be interesting to see how it comes out.

Author:	jordan aceto [ Mon Mar 02, 2009 9:04 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Guitar Design Input
One opinion- if you are going to make it assymeterical, make it MORE so. Otherwise people will just think it is lumpy/poorly bent sides they are seeing. Its a cool idea, it should come across right. You will definately be getting into custom case territory.

Author:	Michael Dale Payne [ Mon Mar 02, 2009 10:12 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Guitar Design Input
craigaboy wrote: Thank you everyone for the warm welcome and insight. After hearing what you all had to say I decided to come at it from a different angle. Following the SJ plans to on the neck and bracing layout with a slight modification to the shape. I know it would be easier to stick with the plans on the shape as well. I have just always found jumbos to be - too curvaceous - (not a complaint I usually find myself making) and dreads to be a little flat for my taste. Todd - I enjoyed all the picts and tutorials on your site. Here is my revised plan: The photo in the background is the bracing layout for the MP SJ with the new shape on top. The overall dimensions are extremely close to MP dreadnought listed on his site. Should fit into a dread case with a little help? Thanks again everyone. I am in awe of all your projects! Craig Please refrain from posing details of any OLF set in views large enough to clearly read detail information. Doing so is volition of the proprietary notice at the bottom of each page. The reason I must object is that the OLF plans are commercial ventures. You have unwittingly given out information that is the heart of the commercial venture. Attachment: NOTICE.png The proprietary notice is on those prints for a reason. If you wish to experiment with my design to make one of your own that is your business but once you publish my work in a detail readable way you have violated the proprietary rights on the Forum, myself and Stewart McDonald. Lance!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! if possible reduce the size of this image so that the OLF dimensional data is not readable or please remove the image al togather

Author:	craigaboy [ Mon Mar 02, 2009 10:59 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Guitar Design Input
Michael I am extremely sorry about any violation or irritation I have caused you or others by posting a reproduction of your plan. Thanks for pulling it down. Craig

Author:	JJ Donohue [ Mon Mar 02, 2009 11:34 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Guitar Design Input
Got it, Michael! Craig apologized...don't beat the dead horse and continue to take the pound of flesh. "Common since" indicates to me that it was an honest mistake with no intention of picking your or anyone else's pocket. This could have been deleted, explained privately, and nobody, including you would have been publicly maligned.

Author:	craigaboy [ Mon Mar 02, 2009 11:29 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Guitar Design Input
Once again I am sorry for upsetting anyone. I should know better. The funny thing is I am an artist and deal with this issue constantly. The truth is I did not even think about it and I should have. Wont happen again. Michael - thanks for being understanding. I appreciate all the work that has poured into your plans. To take a passion into a business venture is an extremely difficult thing to do. I am in AK and we are at least a couple time zones off from you. Did not get a chance to read your PM. I would have pulled it down right away. While I am new to this forum, I am not new to forums in general. Much of the research I do for my hobbies and business is done online. I grew a thick skin long ago. Craig

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Author:	craigaboy [ Mon Mar 02, 2009 11:47 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Guitar Design Input
As far as the shape goes - good suggestions. I did in fact play with the shape more extreme and less extreme until I found what not only fit my playing style but appealed to my eye. I am going to glue some blue board together and mock it up this weekend. When I see how it fits and looks in 3d I am sure there will be some changes. Good thought on the peghead. I will reduce the the amount of point in the design. Then mock it up and play with tuner location. This guitar is for me. Like they say - the customer is always right! Craig

Author:	Michael Dale Payne [ Tue Mar 03, 2009 9:24 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Guitar Design Input
craigaboy wrote: Once again I am sorry for upsetting anyone. I should know better. The funny thing is I am an artist and deal with this issue constantly. The truth is I did not even think about it and I should have. Wont happen again. Michael - thanks for being understanding. I appreciate all the work that has poured into your plans. To take a passion into a business venture is an extremely difficult thing to do. I am in AK and we are at least a couple time zones off from you. Did not get a chance to read your PM. I would have pulled it down right away. While I am new to this forum, I am not new to forums in general. Much of the research I do for my hobbies and business is done online. I grew a thick skin long ago. Craig AK as in Arkansas?

Author:	craigaboy [ Tue Mar 03, 2009 11:53 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Guitar Design Input
alaska

Author:	craigaboy [ Mon Mar 09, 2009 8:32 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Guitar Design Input
I have been following the forum daily. It has been interesting to read the conversations regarding the roles that we all play on the forum. All the way from beginners through experienced luthiers. Many good points. It has been enjoyable. I think I will put my creative tendencies on the back burner for a while. Stick with the SJ shape and plan. Pull out my own ideas after some more experience. Thanks again for your input.