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| Freakin Cheap #$% Barrel Nuts.....Questions... http://www.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10101&t=21125 |
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| Author: | Chris aka Sniggly [ Thu Feb 19, 2009 5:02 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Freakin Cheap #$% Barrel Nuts.....Questions... |
Here's what happened. The Barrel nuts, bought from the BORG, were cheap..and broke. I was lucky enough to have some easy outs I bought at Sears when I was a young buck wandering thru with money in my pockets and no sense AT ALL!  Does anyone know where I can get these things without having to pay LMI 10 dollars for 2 barrel nuts and 2 bolts I'll never use. PLEASE keep in mind I would like the BEEFY one's not the skinny ones with the clap!! ![[headinwall]](./images/smilies/headbangwalluf8.gif "Mad")
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| Author: | Michael Dale Payne [ Thu Feb 19, 2009 5:13 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Freakin Cheap #$% Barrel Nuts.....Questions... |
the oes you get from LMI are the same. unless the wall thickness on these are different which I don't think are. the key to installing these is first the diameter of the hole. nedes to be about half the thread pitch larger than the hub of the insert. this means tht the thread pitch is engauged half of us pitch not full pitch. At least that the only I have ever been able to make them work. the other key is thta the slot head screwdriver needs to fit the notch snugly. If ther is play it will do just as it did to you. All that said the only good threaded inserts I have found have allen head socket relif not slot head. Much beter spread of the torsion load required to drive them in. But if you really want to make a strong joint get away from inline threaded inserts and go to blind barrel nuts. JMO |
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| Author: | Chris aka Sniggly [ Thu Feb 19, 2009 5:29 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Freakin Cheap #$% Barrel Nuts.....Questions... |
Mr Michael Dale Payne....I always like reading your stuff dude.... Some background. These are not exactly like the ones from LMI. The LMI nuts have a .375 thou hub diameter and this cheap BORG nut has a hub diameter of .308. I drilled the holes at .312 (5/16th) plus a little wiggle of the drill just for good measure. AND...I attempted to thread them into the neck with a bolt that had two nuts threaded above the barrel nut (friction type stuff). Stupid thing still broke. I am interested in this other neck stuff you are talking about though...so please do tell. Thanks, Chris |
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| Author: | Flori F. [ Thu Feb 19, 2009 5:45 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Freakin Cheap #$% Barrel Nuts.....Questions... |
Those look like threaded inserts, not barrel nuts. Am I wrong? If that's the case...I had a problem with threaded inserts once upon a time. Mine pulled right out of the neck. Here's the thread, with many helpful responses. Naturally, the discussion expanded: viewtopic.php?f=10101&t=17840&hilit=bolt I now use the inserts that Howard Klepper mentions. About 3/4's of the way down the page he says: "The McMaster-Carr part that most resembles the inserts I use (that I get from McFeely's) is 90192A121." |
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| Author: | Michael Dale Payne [ Thu Feb 19, 2009 5:45 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Freakin Cheap #$% Barrel Nuts.....Questions... |
ok here is a clipped detail from my plans at Stewmac of how I do my necks Attachment: p2.16.jpg Attachment: neck bolting.jpg One thing though the picture i grabed off the web of blind barrel nuts are off center blind barrel nuts with the threaded hole more to one side. The ones I use are 1/2" dia x .75 long and have 1/4-20 threads in the center not off to one side. I get them at my local Ace hardware. this is what Bill Cumpaino recommends. |
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| Author: | Ray Pepalis [ Thu Feb 19, 2009 5:58 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Freakin Cheap #$% Barrel Nuts.....Questions... |
It is my understanding that the slotted end of the barrel nut is not for a screwdriver. Rather, it is the tooth that cuts the thread into the wood. Ths slotted end goes into the drilled hole, and the nut is driven by a threaded rod or bolt with a jam nut to hold it while cutting the threads into the wood. Ray |
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| Author: | Jeffrey L. Suits [ Thu Feb 19, 2009 6:09 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Freakin Cheap #$% Barrel Nuts.....Questions... |
Chris aka Sniggly wrote: Here's what happened. The Barrel nuts, bought from the BORG, were cheap..and broke. I was lucky enough to have some easy outs I bought at Sears when I was a young buck wandering thru with money in my pockets and no sense AT ALL! Does anyone know where I can get these things without having to pay LMI 10 dollars for 2 barrel nuts and 2 bolts I'll never use. PLEASE keep in mind I would like the BEEFY one's not the skinny ones with the clap!! Looks like you tried to install them with a flatblade screwdriver; they'll work fine, if you turn them around, and make a driver out of bolt and a couple of nuts. |
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| Author: | John Killin [ Thu Feb 19, 2009 6:42 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Freakin Cheap #$% Barrel Nuts.....Questions... |
Chris aka Sniggly wrote: I was lucky enough to have some easy outs I bought at Sears when I was a young buck wandering thru with money in my pockets and no sense AT ALL! I'm just amazed that you had an easy out that wasn't broken. 
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| Author: | Chris aka Sniggly [ Thu Feb 19, 2009 7:28 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Freakin Cheap #$% Barrel Nuts.....Questions... |
Isn' that funny?...I laughed too. Just having easy outs was a miracle. Anyway - I went back to Lowe's and decided not to do the same thing twice. I guess this build will have to wait a while longer while McFeely's sends me the stuff I need. 
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| Author: | Howard Klepper [ Fri Feb 20, 2009 1:04 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Freakin Cheap #$% Barrel Nuts.....Questions... |
Chris, forget the local hardware caverns. It's McFeely's part #3606-STS-D. And it's best not to drive them with a hex wrench. use a bolt and a couple of extension nuts on the drill press. I learned how to do this from Tony Karol; it's archived here somewhere. I wax the threads a bit when driving the inserts. Blue locktite on the threads of the bolt when the neck is attached. There's this thicker version of loctite that I like, but the liquid works, too. |
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| Author: | Chris aka Sniggly [ Fri Feb 20, 2009 2:01 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Freakin Cheap #$% Barrel Nuts.....Questions... |
Thanks Howard...I ended up ordering McMaster's version of the same thing. Now I have to WAIT for it to get here.... Chris |
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| Author: | TonyKarol [ Fri Feb 20, 2009 4:30 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Freakin Cheap #$% Barrel Nuts.....Questions... |
Looks like HD inthe US sources different threaded inserts. I get mine at HD here in Canada, and the ones they sell are the 3/8 size (actually they call them 10mm) .. whatever ... I have never had one break like that. I also drive them in with the slot up .. just in case I want to remove it with a slot screwdriver. Like Howard say.. I use the drill press (by hand) to put them in - the only way I know of to get them in straight, every time. take a long threaded 1/4-20 bolt - I had to thread it all the way up to the hex top, then add a 1/4-20 splice on it - this is what the chuck on the drill clamps on. Add on another splice, but at the bottom end of the bolt, this goes against the insert, and drives it down as you turn it with a wrench. Its all inthe setup - you need to get the drill press table to which you will clamp the neck, with its heel face square to the quill. once you get that, its easy. Takes longer to set up than drill and drive two inserts (Once you get the first hole dirlled, drive that insert - its in the perfect spot to do that - then drill the other. |
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| Author: | Chris aka Sniggly [ Fri Feb 20, 2009 5:08 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Freakin Cheap #$% Barrel Nuts.....Questions... |
Tony I've been monkeying around in the shop with the drill press since Howard mentioned that you do it that way. I'll get it done...just takes some 'finaglin'.... Thanks for chiming in. |
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| Author: | ballbanjos [ Fri Feb 20, 2009 6:49 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Freakin Cheap #$% Barrel Nuts.....Questions... |
The McFeelys inserts look like good ones. But, I've never had problems with the brass inserts that I buy at Lowes, however there is a trick to it. There are two different kinds of brass inserts--one has a slot going into the cylinder of the insert, but it doesn't come up into the thread. This is what Woodcraft sells. These don't cut threads into the wood--they sort of emboss the threads into the wood (or strip out). They don't work in hardwood well at all. The ones I buy at Lowes have a slot that comes up into the thread, so when you drive them into the hole with the slot going in first, they act like taps, and cut the threads very cleanly and securely. The key is that the slot on the Lowes type inserts isn't for a screwdriver--it's for leaving a sharp edge on the thread so that it can cut the wood. The Woodcraft insert seems to have just missed the point. McMaster sells a finer thread steel insert that has a hole drilled in the side of it through the threads. This hole does the same thing as the slot in the Lowes inserts--it leaves a sharp edge on the thread so that the insert actually taps the wood. With both inserts, when they're going in right, they'll leave a little curl of wood inside the insert where the hole has actually been tapped instead of embossed. Dave |
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| Author: | truckjohn [ Fri Feb 20, 2009 7:23 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Freakin Cheap #$% Barrel Nuts.....Questions... |
I used the ones from lowes just like yours-- They work just fine. They also sell the Socket head ones -- they are just in a different bin. Tapping them into Necks..... A couple lessons I learned.... and I did split out a neck learning... 1. The hole has to be big enough. Just barely bigger than the shank is not really big enough. I would try out 1/32" over the shank OD.... and the Shank tapers thicker towards the screwdriver head end.... so measure there. Remember... you may split the neck if you err on the "Too Small" side. 2. Drill a pilot hole at the screw thread diameter way deeper than you think it needs to be -- this is to take up extra screw threads from the neck holder-onner screw.... or you will tighten it up and split the neck. 3. Taper and Sharpen up the 1st thread with a file or Dremel. Makes things go *Way* easier. 4. Old woodworking trick... Bar soap on wood screw threads makes them go in nicely. 5. Thread the S.H.C.S. driver screw way down into the insert -- more than 2-turns.... more like All turns. Brass is way softer than Steel -- 2 turns is just not enough especially when at least 1 of those is split for the screwdriver head. Good luck John |
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| Author: | martinedwards [ Sat Feb 21, 2009 6:22 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Freakin Cheap #$% Barrel Nuts.....Questions... |
me too. |
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