Thanks Waddy.
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| Glue sides into heel slots on Classical? What do yo do? http://www.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10101&t=21124 |
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| Author: | Ricardo [ Thu Feb 19, 2009 4:44 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Glue sides into heel slots on Classical? What do yo do? |
One of the popular books on Classical Guitar construction says to glue the sides into the heel slots. I've built many ukuleles and never glued the sides into the heel slots. What do you do? |
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| Author: | Colin S [ Thu Feb 19, 2009 5:22 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Glue sides into heel slots on Classical? What do yo do? |
Don't glue, but I do use the Romanillos double wedge system. Colin |
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| Author: | Michael Dale Payne [ Thu Feb 19, 2009 5:24 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Glue sides into heel slots on Classical? What do yo do? |
Classical guitar are mostly built with spanish heel necks that have a slot (narrow datto) on eaach side of the heel block wher the sides slip into. In other words the neck and neck block is one piece with narrow mortices wher the sides fit into the neck. Attachment: building_spanish_neck02.jpg
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| Author: | Martin Turner [ Thu Feb 19, 2009 6:05 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Glue sides into heel slots on Classical? What do yo do? |
I glue...but only on inside surface of side. Putting glue on outside surface of side creates risk of glue squeeze out around heel area. |
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| Author: | Ricardo [ Thu Feb 19, 2009 6:06 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Glue sides into heel slots on Classical? What do yo do? |
Ya I got that Michael, question was whether to glue the sides in or not. |
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| Author: | Geordie Adams [ Thu Feb 19, 2009 6:31 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Glue sides into heel slots on Classical? What do yo do? |
hi Ricardo timely question, this is the stage I’m at today. The slots are “angled” very slightly from the body side back to the twelve fret mark and also (viewed from the side of the neck block) there is a very slight diagonal incline so the neck “leans forward” a few degrees depending on your solera layout. The saw has been modified to hold two blades to give the correct width of cut to accept the sides. hope this helps Geordie oh I just saw your reply. It will be glued but the next one will be wedged. |
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| Author: | Mark Groza [ Thu Feb 19, 2009 6:46 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Glue sides into heel slots on Classical? What do yo do? |
Ricardo wrote: Ya I got that Michael, question was whether to glue the sides in or not. Most do glue Ricardo.On the inside only. |
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| Author: | John Killin [ Thu Feb 19, 2009 6:54 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Glue sides into heel slots on Classical? What do yo do? |
I can't remember where I read to do it, but I just used some Paper\Carboard and wedged it tight (on a uke). I didn't use any glue. If I were doing it now I would probably use some wedges made of wood. I don't think the paper gave me even pressure along the entire joint and when I carved the neck I ended up with some slight gaps. This could have been my lack of understanding of the entire process. Like I said if I had to do it again, I would do it differently. But I don't think there would be a need for glue. In hindsight, what I should have done when I notice the gap would have been to pull the paper and put another wedge in there to get it tight. If I had used glue, that wouldn’t be possible, or would be more difficult. While I was doing the original assembly I had some issues and had to give it a try several times. Not having glue in there worked to my advantage at that point. Good Luck, John |
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| Author: | jfrench [ Thu Feb 19, 2009 8:35 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Glue sides into heel slots on Classical? What do yo do? |
Romanillos double wedge with glue here. |
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| Author: | MarkJ [ Thu Feb 19, 2009 8:53 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Glue sides into heel slots on Classical? What do yo do? |
I do not glue the sides into the heel. I cut the slot using a 2.1mm thin kerf blade. The side fit snugly into the slot, no glue. |
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| Author: | douglas ingram [ Thu Feb 19, 2009 10:00 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Glue sides into heel slots on Classical? What do yo do? |
Double wedge glue on the inside. I learnt the hard way about glue squeeze out on the outside... |
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| Author: | Ricardo [ Thu Feb 19, 2009 10:49 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Glue sides into heel slots on Classical? What do yo do? |
What does the Romanillos double wedge look like? I think some use wedges put in verically whereas others push wedges in from the side (horizontally). I used vertical wedges in my ukuleles. |
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| Author: | WaddyThomson [ Thu Feb 19, 2009 11:08 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Glue sides into heel slots on Classical? What do yo do? |
Here you go, Ricardo. Attachment: P1000446 (Large).JPG Attachment: P1000447 (Large).JPG Attachment: P1000449 (Large).JPG
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| Author: | Stephen Boone [ Thu Feb 19, 2009 11:29 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Glue sides into heel slots on Classical? What do yo do? |
Waddy, Bless you for thoso photos. I have been, this very evening, scratching my head trying to visualize the double wedge. I have been flummoxed as to what to do. Now I have everything I need to complete this operation and I see that I have not ruined my neck after all!!!! Very nice. |
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| Author: | Ricardo [ Thu Feb 19, 2009 11:45 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Glue sides into heel slots on Classical? What do yo do? |
Thanks Waddy.
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| Author: | Colin S [ Fri Feb 20, 2009 3:50 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Glue sides into heel slots on Classical? What do yo do? |
For me the wedges are glued but not the sides. Colin |
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| Author: | Geordie Adams [ Fri Feb 20, 2009 6:59 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Glue sides into heel slots on Classical? What do yo do? |
Stephen, you defiantly don't want to be flummoxed when preparing your neck joint, it could be fatal!. We want more words like FLUMMOXED! Geordie |
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| Author: | Marc [ Fri Feb 20, 2009 8:30 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Glue sides into heel slots on Classical? What do yo do? |
When I make the Romanillos style, like Waddy's picture, I put glue on both sides of the wedge that is put in last which leaves the sides without glue. When I do the standard slot style, I don't use any glue. |
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| Author: | WaddyThomson [ Fri Feb 20, 2009 11:16 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Glue sides into heel slots on Classical? What do yo do? |
I glued the wedges in, but not the side to heel, outside the box. |
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| Author: | WendyW [ Fri Feb 20, 2009 11:44 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Glue sides into heel slots on Classical? What do yo do? |
Hey Waddy, thanks for those pictures. Would you be willing to share your system for cutting the wide slots. I've been cutting just the narrow ones by hand and I'd rather switch to the double wedge. Do you cut them on a table saw? On another note, I thought that I had 3 necks I have been working on completed. I had finished carving the heels last weekend, and yesterday I took a good look in some bright light and realized I had removed too much wood from the heel of one  ! I'm going to try to cut the heel off and glue on another heel block and recarve. It means recutting the slots so I might as well switch now. Thanks, Wendy
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| Author: | WaddyThomson [ Fri Feb 20, 2009 12:07 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Glue sides into heel slots on Classical? What do yo do? |
So far, my experiences of cutting the slots any other way than by hand has been a disaster. I ruined 2 V-jointed necks trying different methods, and went back to hand cutting. I'm sure there is a way, but I have not successfully found it. Check out my build album for #2, and you can see my failures. My albums contain all of the successes and failures of my builds. They are, after all, my build logs. The link to all of my albums is in my signature. If I'm not mistaken, David La Plante has a Tutorial in the Tutorial section on his jig for cutting those slots. I tried that and failed too. Not a problem with David's jig, just "Operator Head-space"! ![[headinwall]](./images/smilies/headbangwalluf8.gif "Mad") 
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| Author: | WendyW [ Fri Feb 20, 2009 12:16 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Glue sides into heel slots on Classical? What do yo do? |
Thanks Waddy, I looked at your pictures from your 2nd. I guess I'll go ahead and cut by hand and chisel out. I'll check out David La Plante's tutorial too. How wide are your slots? Thanks, Wendy |
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| Author: | Ricardo [ Fri Feb 20, 2009 2:26 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Glue sides into heel slots on Classical? What do yo do? |
I tried the techniques link at the top of the OLF page but apparently the link is broken. If it is impossible to fix this why not just take the links off? |
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| Author: | douglas ingram [ Fri Feb 20, 2009 2:40 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Glue sides into heel slots on Classical? What do yo do? |
If you are working in Spanish Cedar or Mahogany, it is very easy to do by hand. In fact, its a treat do do it by hand. A good saw and a sharp chisel, that's it. Only think that I'd advise is that you consider the width of the slot relative to the width of your chisel. Its easier working in a slot that is bigger, rather than smaller, than the chisel that you choose to work with. It may seem obvious, but only after you try and do the job, or someone points it out to you. Me, it was obvious while I was cutting it...that's how I know now! |
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| Author: | WaddyThomson [ Fri Feb 20, 2009 2:55 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Glue sides into heel slots on Classical? What do yo do? |
Generally the slots are 10mm wide, but I don't know that it's a critical measurement. Here is a link to David LaPlante's Thread on Working up a Classical Neck, which should, without a doubt, be placed in the Tutorial Forum. It shows his jig for cutting the slots. It works well if you use it right, which I did not, the first time. viewtopic.php?f=10101&t=16461&hilit=+slots |
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