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What Kind of Glue is in Takamine Neck Joints?
http://www.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10101&t=21111		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  Jim Grable [ Wed Feb 18, 2009 5:33 pm ]
Post subject:  What Kind of Glue is in Takamine Neck Joints?
I'm trying to remove the neck on a Takamine EG-334BC to reset. I'm injecting steam at the 15th fret and applying pressure to the joint with a set up similar to what stewmac sells. I've scored the finish where the neck joins the body. The fret board is loosened up to the 15th fret. I am able to insert a guitar string into the dovetail cavity, so I'm fairly sure the steam is making it in there as well, but the joint will not budge. Could it be that epoxy or a non water soluble glue was used?

Thanks,

Jim
Author:  Michael Dale Payne [ Wed Feb 18, 2009 5:36 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: What Kind of Glue is in Takamine Neck Joints?
could be is it a top line or one of thier lower line models?
Author:  Jim Grable [ Wed Feb 18, 2009 5:47 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: What Kind of Glue is in Takamine Neck Joints?
It's one of their mid line models. The owner said he paid around 500 for it. It's a cutaway with a pickup and on board preamp.

Jim
Author:  Michael Dale Payne [ Wed Feb 18, 2009 5:53 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: What Kind of Glue is in Takamine Neck Joints?
I don't know how Takamine does their joints but I know a lot of the imports will use and epoxy because they figure whin it is time for a neck reset they will sell a new guitar. But even with epoxy in ther enough heat it will let go. the deal is will you first warp the neck blocks and rim or damage the finish. you bight go at it some more. keep the moisture wipped up.
Author:  Rod True [ Wed Feb 18, 2009 6:01 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: What Kind of Glue is in Takamine Neck Joints?
This question has been asked a few times over the years, both here and on other luthiers forums, and honestly, there has never been an answer. It seems like no one knows for sure.

It's my understanding (like MP suggested) that they don't foresee having to do a neck re-set. I have a 18 year old Takamine and I've had mediums on it for about 1/2 it's life. Honestly, the neck and bridge height have not changed since I got it new back in 1991.

Good luck on it.
Author:  Jim Grable [ Wed Feb 18, 2009 6:03 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: What Kind of Glue is in Takamine Neck Joints?
Thanks, not having any better ideas I guess I'll keep trying.

Jim
Author:  Hesh [ Wed Feb 18, 2009 6:54 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: What Kind of Glue is in Takamine Neck Joints?
Welcome to the OLF Jim! [:Y:] [clap] [clap] [clap]
Author:  truckjohn [ Wed Feb 18, 2009 8:27 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: What Kind of Glue is in Takamine Neck Joints?
I read some notes about Epoxy being used on Tak's neck joint...
Haven't verified it, though.
Epoxy will let go with Heat, just not steam.

Frank Ford on Frets has an interesting method of sawing the neck loose on un-cooperative guitars.

Many Taks have a Lifetime Warranty -- This might be a good chance take them up on it.

Thanks

John
Author:  Jim Grable [ Wed Feb 18, 2009 8:51 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: What Kind of Glue is in Takamine Neck Joints?
I'm guessing there is close to half a tea kettle's worth of water vapor in the head block now, and nothing moved in the slightest. I may start thinking about putting in a bridge doctor - any thoughts?

Jim
Author:  Rod True [ Wed Feb 18, 2009 9:18 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: What Kind of Glue is in Takamine Neck Joints?
WOW, that's a lot of moisture wow7-eyes and the top isn't pulling away from the headblock? The bindings still holding strong?

That's some glue they're using. Must be Gorilla glue :lol:

Sounds like bridge doctor might be your only option. Well, least invasive anyway.

There's always Frank Ford's method eek
Author:  Jay Lowe [ Wed Feb 18, 2009 10:30 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: What Kind of Glue is in Takamine Neck Joints?
Jim:

I've done two neck resets on older Martins where the previous repairers had used a type of epoxy that laughed at the steam needle (I'd love to know who they were to discuss it with them). There are many types of epoxy out there and I assume that some are okay (reversible) for lutherie. But I always seem to run up on the kind that's not.

It was suggested to me that I try a mildly diluted solution of Methylene Chloride. I found a local source for it and it worked pretty well. I drilled through the fret slots 4 times each and dropped it in over a period of a few hours with a glass micro pipette.

Some things I learned about it:

1. Do the hazmat thing - mask, respirator, thick gloves.
2. It will dissolve finishes, tape, styrofoam, latex, carpet on the bench, and probably a number of other things I haven't yet discovered.
3. I successfully used cotton and cork to soak up any leakage at the bottom of the joint.... okay, maybe most of it.
4. I will be a semi-clear, light pink colored liquid when you get it. You'll see little puffs of smoke come out of the holes when it comes in contact with the epoxy. If it comes in contact with light colored woods (spruce, etc.) it will stain them purple.

This may be a bit more involved than you want to try on a Tak. It ain't easy or fun but it can work. I used it a while back to remove the fingerboard on a Peavey Wolfgang and it worked well.

Good luck.

Jay
Author:  Steve Kinnaird [ Wed Feb 18, 2009 10:44 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: What Kind of Glue is in Takamine Neck Joints?
Jay, you are one brave man.

Steve
Author:  Schoonie [ Wed Feb 18, 2009 10:55 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: What Kind of Glue is in Takamine Neck Joints?
Jim,
For what it's worth, the only neck reset I've done on a Tak was a 1978 D28 H'bone copy and it had me puzzled until I discovered that it was a butt jointed neck heel joint with five 1/4" dowells. You might try pulling the neck straight away instead of pressing it up and out.

Good luck,
Kent
Author:  truckjohn [ Wed Feb 18, 2009 11:20 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: What Kind of Glue is in Takamine Neck Joints?
Right, Methylene chloride will work well on Epoxy....
It is found on the "Super Finish Stripper" sorts of stuff...
You know .... the "Guaranteed to Remove *ANYTHING*" sorts of stuff...
Paint, Epoxy, Rubber tires, Porcelain out of Sinks, Chrome plating,
delinquent renters, Old tattoos.....

Just be careful with the stuff.
The trouble with Methylene Chloride is that it will transport solvents and other things
straight through skin..... Read "Blood Poisoning."
Do wear good dishwasher gloves.
You will know right away when you get it on your skin.... It burns like crazy.
Have a bottle of Olive Oil and a clean rag handy to wipe it off....

Oh, and DON'T get it on the Guitar finish.... It immediately dissolves pretty much every kind of finish known to man.

You can make some fine PVC pipe glue out of whatever you have leftover....
just dissolve PVC pipe into the Methylene chloride until it is syrupy.... Viola.
Pipe glue.

Thanks

John
Author:  Jay Lowe [ Thu Feb 19, 2009 12:01 am ]
Post subject:  Re: What Kind of Glue is in Takamine Neck Joints?
Quote:
Jay, you are one brave man.



You can probably guess how I learned that it burns through latex gloves. The good news is that the skin will grow back over time.

Jim - You might want to look at this thread:

http://www.takamineforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1003

Also, Mike Markure has always seemed like a stand-up guy. You might want to ask his advice.

Jay
Author:  Jeffrey L. Suits [ Thu Feb 19, 2009 12:32 am ]
Post subject:  Re: What Kind of Glue is in Takamine Neck Joints?
Jim Grable wrote:
I'm trying to remove the neck on a Takamine EG-334BC to reset. I'm injecting steam at the 15th fret and applying pressure to the joint with a set up similar to what stewmac sells. I've scored the finish where the neck joins the body. The fret board is loosened up to the 15th fret. I am able to insert a guitar string into the dovetail cavity, so I'm fairly sure the steam is making it in there as well, but the joint will not budge. Could it be that epoxy or a non water soluble glue was used?

Thanks,

Jim


Epoxy--saw this sucker!
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