bad thing is i have read this many times, years ago but for some rason it did not stick
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| Mortise and Tenon joint http://www.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10101&t=20979 |
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| Author: | Rond [ Tue Feb 10, 2009 7:10 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Mortise and Tenon joint |
Hello, When making a mortise and tenon joint ( for a Fleta ); the angle will no longer be 90 degrees to the body because of the 2 to 3 degree of forward lift create by the neck. How do you accurately mark this slight change prior to making the joint. Ronald |
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| Author: | charliewood [ Wed Feb 11, 2009 2:54 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Mortise and Tenon joint |
I have been wondering about this also as Im fast approaching this step myself - only with a dovetail joint - Without hijacking this thread - I was hoping someone could respond to my query as well - This is the way I thought of it-> mabye it applies to both M&T and dovetail operations Im not sure.... nearest I can figure is once the 12th fret location is established on th fb - to measure 90deg off thefretboard plane, then (or simply only) a 2deg line perpendicular to the fretboard plane at the 12th fret - then cut in on the 2 deg line to the outter edges of the dovetail outline - and trim the dovetail outline to leave the dovetail blank (i.e. hog off some of the waste wood) leaving enough to rout the dovetail (tenon) Is this right? am I missing something or should I proceed this way? PS Im using the Woolson jig - so once the preliminary setup is done Ill be using the jig to rout the actual joint .... Cheers Charlie |
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| Author: | Michael Dale Payne [ Wed Feb 11, 2009 3:15 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Mortise and Tenon joint |
I am going to show my ignorance here but what is a "fleta"? Regardless I use 1.5 degrees of "design" back angle in my necks I say design because each body requires flossing of the heel cheeks to properly fit the neck to bridge relationship as well as centerline relationship so the final out come may be 1.55 or 1.25 degrees neck angle based on that particular body. Now how do I get my heel cheek at 1.5 degrees? I cut the cheek cut at a 1.5 degree angle on both sides of heel to tenon depth and then finish the tenon as if it were 90 degrees to that plane This gives the heel am 88.5 degree included angle to the fretboard plane. |
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| Author: | WaddyThomson [ Wed Feb 11, 2009 4:06 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Mortise and Tenon joint |
Ignatio Fleta was a classical builder of note. Built a few for Segovia, and John Williams played a Fleta for years, until he switched to a Smallman. Fleta guitars are still being made by his sons. The old man died in 1977. He used a Mortise and Tenon in his construction. |
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| Author: | Michael Dale Payne [ Wed Feb 11, 2009 4:18 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Mortise and Tenon joint |
bad thing is i have read this many times, years ago but for some rason it did not stick
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| Author: | charliewood [ Wed Feb 11, 2009 9:05 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Mortise and Tenon joint |
Michael I was definitely showing my ignorance, because I was just asking about generic neck fitting using a 2deg (1.5) angle.... I completely missed the Fleta thing and so I apologize if I sorta threw the subject off track... Im not sure if the fleta construction of a mortise and tenon is a unique M&T method, compared to standard M&T construction - Hesh has kindly offered to clear up my confusion in PMs Cheers Charlie |
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| Author: | Jim Watts [ Wed Feb 11, 2009 9:53 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Mortise and Tenon joint |
Hi Rond and welcome to the forum. You can simply set a sliding bevel angle to the appropriate angle and scribe the lines to cut to. I have a neck jig that I use to do mine however that's adjustable to the appropriate angle. This is set up for steel strings though and not classical's as they have a forward tilt on the neck, not a back tilt. I have built in the Fleta style also, so when I need to do a forward tilting neck I set the fixture to 90 degrees and place a small shim under the tenon area of the neck to provide the appropriate angle for the forward tilt. Hope that helps. You probably want to scribe the line and cut to that. |
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| Author: | Rond [ Thu Feb 12, 2009 8:18 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Mortise and Tenon joint |
It's definitely empirical work for me. I will have to work very carefully. Thanks for the replies. Ronald |
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