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Only a gibson is good enough http://www.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10101&t=20881	Page 1 of 1

Author:	jordan aceto [ Thu Feb 05, 2009 7:07 pm ]
Post subject:	Only a gibson is good enough
Remember the old gibson slogan: "only a gibson is good enough" It has become a bit of a shop joke where i work, with the real meaning being: "ah, thats good enough, just ship it out already" Here is a mandolin in for repairs, check out the tailblock. See where the strap button hole is, way the heck over on the side. Whoever set the neck had it cocked quite a bit to the side, and instead of dealing with it, they just moved the tailpiece over so that the strings wouldnt be hanging out in thin air. Good enough indeed!

Author:	Hesh [ Thu Feb 05, 2009 7:23 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Only a gibson is good enough
Oh come on Jordan my friend it's only a little off........

Author:	David Collins [ Thu Feb 05, 2009 7:27 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Only a gibson is good enough
That's been a steady joke in a few shops I've worked in, but it never seems to get old. It's only a Gibson - Good Enough! Or the old ad Epiphone is rumored to have used in the 40's - When "good enough" isn't good enough The irony is, that's from back when they were actually "good enough". Have you seen what they've been building lately. Careful what you say though - that company today has more lawyers than luthiers.

Author:	Terence Kennedy [ Thu Feb 05, 2009 7:30 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Only a gibson is good enough
I thought the offset strap button was supposed to add complexity to the bass response. Gibson would NEVER do something like that without a good reason. TJK

Author:	jack [ Thu Feb 05, 2009 7:57 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Only a gibson is good enough
I don't believe that's representative of old Gibson mandolins. Is it flat or carved top?

Author:	jordan aceto [ Thu Feb 05, 2009 7:59 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Only a gibson is good enough
The gibson inlay and label are dead give aways.

Author:	Mark Groza [ Thu Feb 05, 2009 8:31 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Only a gibson is good enough
From the pics. it don't look like the tentallones go all the way to the block either.

Author:	sebastiaan56 [ Thu Feb 05, 2009 11:44 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Only a gibson is good enough
Maybe built for a player with a long right forearm....

Author:	Arnt Rian [ Fri Feb 06, 2009 3:16 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Only a gibson is good enough
There are a couple of recent threads over on Mandolin Cafe about some of this and other inconsistencies in vintage Gibson mandolins. This first one is about offset necks on snake head A’s. http://www.mandolincafe.com/forum/showthread.php?t=47806 The second thread (started by our own D.E. Williams) deals with all the other "obvious inaccuracies and inconsistencies" that appear in the famous Loar period F-style instruments, and whether or not modern builders should copy these. The subject, as you can see, is one that the mando crowd has some strong opinions about and loves to discuss... http://www.mandolincafe.com/forum/showthread.php?t=47652

Author:	Dave Fifield [ Fri Feb 06, 2009 5:05 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Only a gibson is good enough
I recently attended a lecture given by Roger Siminoff called "The Lore of Loar", about the remarkable story of Lloyd Loar including, of course, his history with Gibson (and quite a bit about Gibson itself). I know I dozed off a couple of times during the lecture and don't remember everything clearly, but I swear I heard Roger talk about some Gibson mandolin designs having deliberately offset necks and/or non-symmetric body shapes. Are you sure what you are seeing in this instrument really is shoddy workmanship? Dave F.

Author:	TonyFrancis [ Fri Feb 06, 2009 5:17 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Only a gibson is good enough
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Author:	jordan aceto [ Fri Feb 06, 2009 7:42 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Only a gibson is good enough
Dave Fifield wrote: I recently attended a lecture given by Roger Siminoff called "The Lore of Loar", about the remarkable story of Lloyd Loar including, of course, his history with Gibson (and quite a bit about Gibson itself). I know I dozed off a couple of times during the lecture and don't remember everything clearly, but I swear I heard Roger talk about some Gibson mandolin designs having deliberately offset necks and/or non-symmetric body shapes. Are you sure what you are seeing in this instrument really is shoddy workmanship? Dave F. Read through Arnts first link (which is the one that deals with skewed necks), these were not treated like rocket ships, and they made them fast. If the skewed neck was deliberate, i think they would have moved the block and center seam over to match. Here is my favorite Rick Turner post from that thread- "It's really easy to read "intent" into things like asymmetry or elements being off-center when what you really should be reading in is "mistake". They did not agonize over things at the Gibson factory, and tooling was all hand made. If they could put strings on it, they did, and they shipped it. " Dovetails in mandolins are hard to do, much harder than guitars. The cheeks need to wrap around the bulbous end of the body, requiring a lot of hand work. One extra swipe on the treble side and its off 1/4" at the tail. I am not trying to say that they are bad instruments, i am sure this mandolin will sound and play great when it is back together, i just got a kick out opening it up and seeing that hole, i thought someone here might enjoy it. He he he, Tony that is a new one for me.

Author:	jordan aceto [ Fri Feb 06, 2009 9:23 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Only a gibson is good enough
Spent a bit more time reading through Arnts links, they are fun reading. I think we may have a little bit of cross talk, with regards to symmetry and neck sets. Siminoff was probably talking about F style instruments, which are intentionally asymmetrical. The outline needs to be "nudged" here and there to make them look nice, and i agree that there is little point trying to "iron out" the outline if you are going for a traditional F style mandolin. It should be pointed out that while Roger Siminoff is a great builder, teacher and scholar of gibson mandolins, some of his ideas are just plain whacky, have you read his books? The mandolin i picture is a budget model, horrible top wood painted opaque white to hide wacky grain and poor quartersawing. Gibsons lower priced instruments had less attention paid to them than the pricier F styles.

Author:	Arnt Rian [ Fri Feb 06, 2009 3:45 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Only a gibson is good enough
jordan aceto wrote: The mandolin i picture is a budget model, horrible top wood painted opaque white to hide wacky grain and poor quartersawing. Gibsons lower priced instruments had less attention paid to them than the pricier F styles. I've never seen a Loar mandolin in person, but if you can believe what some of the knowledgeable folks on the 'Cafe say about them, some have tops that would be considered unfit for a fine instrument by most modern builders standards; off quarter, unmatched etc. Apparently it was becoming difficult to obtain good quality red spruce for Gibson, but Loar (or someone else involed in the production these instruments) really wanted it, almost regardless of the quality of the wood at hand.

Author:	TonyFrancis [ Fri Feb 06, 2009 5:02 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Only a gibson is good enough
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Author:	TonyFrancis [ Fri Feb 06, 2009 5:12 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Only a gibson is good enough
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Author:	archtop [ Fri Feb 06, 2009 5:21 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Only a gibson is good enough
I know Gibson takes a lot of flack. And in many ways they have earned those remarks! But remember, even in the early days they were a company who's interest was making/selling as many "insert product here" as they could. It's not like it was one luthier, a la John D'Angelico. Sure, there have been a lot of stinkers. But IMO there have been a lot of amazing instruments made under the Gibson name too! And what about the innovations, especially while under Ted McCarty..... Archtop guitar, Adjustable bridge, First Electric (ES-150), Humbuckers, Adjustable Truss Rod, First Solid Body Guitar (Les Paul), etc... Looking at that list.... it seems like they single handedly brought about a new era. Now, do they currently overcharge for everything they sell? Of course. And most of it is sub par for the price paid. So I understand that sentiment. But as a legacy I have a lot of respect for Gibson. -John

Author:	Hesh [ Fri Feb 06, 2009 6:06 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Only a gibson is good enough
Well said John my friend! Boy Mr. Loar's bench was pretty messy......

Author:	jack [ Fri Feb 06, 2009 6:25 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Only a gibson is good enough
Loars workbench: I believe Tony said it best, "a 'less anal' approach ....

Author:	jordan aceto [ Fri Feb 06, 2009 6:52 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Only a gibson is good enough
Tony, those are fantastic pictures, thanks for posting them. To be clear, i am not really ragging on gibson, (well, maybe a little) but when you see a bunch of them opened up, you get to see some pretty funky things which would be a stretch to interpret as intentional. Like a hole way off to the side of the block. I really like old gibson instruments, i have owned a bunch of them, and i enjoy it when one comes in for repairs. The offset hole situation wouldnt stop me from purchasing this mandolin either, if i liked how it sounded and played.

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