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Methods for cutting kerfs in linings?
http://www.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10101&t=20849		 Page 1 of 2
Author:  Todd Rose [ Tue Feb 03, 2009 9:58 pm ]
Post subject:  Methods for cutting kerfs in linings?
Today I made some kerfed linings for the first time. I've just bought them before, but I want to experiment with a different design than what's commercially available (a design I got from Charles Fox), so I made some. It all worked out pretty well, but I'd be interested to hear how some of you who make your own kerfed linings cut the kerfs. I know some people use a radial arm saw with a gang of blades mounted on it, but I don't have a radial arm saw and am reluctant to get one just to make linings. I'm thinking maybe some of you have come up with some clever ways of doing it that I'm not aware of. Or, if you do use a radial arm saw, maybe you can sell me on the idea and give me a few tips on using that method.

Thanks!
Author:  Rod True [ Tue Feb 03, 2009 10:07 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Methods for cutting kerfs in linings?
Todd, check out Tim McKnight's method (at least what he posted in 2003) here on the MIMF http://www.mimf.com/library/mcknight_ta ... erfjig.htm , hope you can see it.
Author:  oli-lgw [ Tue Feb 03, 2009 10:11 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Methods for cutting kerfs in linings?
if by kerfed lining you mean the stripes that holds the sides to the back and top of the guitar (I learned guitar building in french, so I'm not absolutely sure with all the english terms idunno ), I do mine using the band saw; I use the fence so my linings are perpendicular to the blade, then set a clamp so that the fence won't go pass the depth of cut I want in the lining... I also use a piece of wood between the fence and my lining, on which I mark the width (lets say 1/4")to align each cut, so the kerfing is always the same size throughout the piece... hope I'm clear..? Sorry, I don't have any pictures....

how do you do yours? :)
Author:  Mark Ewing [ Tue Feb 03, 2009 11:04 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Methods for cutting kerfs in linings?
Rod True wrote:
Todd, check out Tim McKnight's method (at least what he posted in 2003) here on the MIMF http://www.mimf.com/library/mcknight_ta ... erfjig.htm , hope you can see it.


I am always interested in how Tim Mcknight does things but I can't find the artical listed. gaah Can you shed some more light?
Author:  Mark Ewing [ Tue Feb 03, 2009 11:13 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Methods for cutting kerfs in linings?
I have cut kerfing two ways. The first set I did with a home made miter box looking thing by hand with a depth stop attached to the saw. Worked OK but took forever. The last set I cut on the band saw with a stop board at the right depth. Again work OK. Quicker but I thought the results could be better. I was looking at this ( http://www.pegasusguitars.com/making_kerfing.htm) as an idea that might have some merit although I have never tried it. I will the next time I make kerfing.
Author:  Rod True [ Tue Feb 03, 2009 11:53 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Methods for cutting kerfs in linings?
Mark, you may have to log on to the MIMF in order to see. There is no charge there and honestly, they have the best library of archived discussions you'll find on the net.
Author:  DannyV [ Wed Feb 04, 2009 12:17 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Methods for cutting kerfs in linings?
I gang three Dewalt thin kerf circular saw blades, dedicated to the cause. I use my Lee Valley blade stiffeners for spacers. Plane the board you want to use to thickness, height of lining. Route a radius on each edge. I think I use 1/2". Rip those two edges off and repeat until you get bored or run out of board. You can run 6 or so at a time through your table saw with a sled and index pin setup. Lay the 6 linings on your bench and lay tape diagonally across the top to hold them all together. Lay them on the sled and use a board to hold them down. You can make enough linings in an hour or two to last you and your friends a really long time.

Hope this helps.
Danny
Author:  douglas ingram [ Wed Feb 04, 2009 12:38 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Methods for cutting kerfs in linings?
I've done it by hand, by bandsaw, and now with the RAS. The handsaw is cheap, but slow. The bandsaw I have, but you can still only make one cut at time, and you need to use a thin cutting blade. Don't have a table saw that I use, but the RAS I got fro free at the dump, fixed it up a bit, and works great now. You can cut lots of strips at a time, so even doing just one cut ( I guess that I could gang cut), its worthwhile because of the number of strips cut at a time.

Lots of good RASs available used these days, what with so many people ditching them in favour of sliding miter saws. Its worth looking for one.
Author:  Todd Rose [ Wed Feb 04, 2009 6:35 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Methods for cutting kerfs in linings?
Thanks to everyone who's replied so far. Checking out the links has given me a couple good ideas. Keep 'em coming!

Danny, ganging blades together on the table saw is a good idea. I might try that. Do the Dewalt blades you use make a flat-bottomed kerf? I used a Freud Diablo thin kerf blade on my table saw, and it does not make a flat-bottomed kerf. I'm a little nervous that this creates two weak corners in the bottom of each kerf that may cause breakage when I go to install them in some of the tight curves on my guitar sides.

The other thing I wasn't 100% pleased with was that using the table saw means the depth of cut is indexed off of the face that's being kerfed. Any slight variation in the thickness of the lining, then, becomes a difference in the thickness of the thin web of wood that's left at the bottom of the kerfs. This may prove to be insignificant, but I'd rather see uniformity there, so that the lining will flex equally and not stress some kerfs more than others when making tight bends. That's the thing I like most about the radial arm saw method. Not that I've tried it myself, but it seems like, if the saw is accurate, you could control the thickness of the web better, because you're indexing off the web side of the lining, not the kerf side - no matter how thick or thin the lining is, you're always cutting to a certain thickness of web, not a certain depth of cut.
Author:  PaulK [ Wed Feb 04, 2009 7:19 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Methods for cutting kerfs in linings?
Todd, if your interested in using a bandsaw with a jig that will automaticaly move the lining piece check out this link
http://www.luthierforum.com/index.php?s ... 6&hl=ksled

Paul
Author:  TonyKarol [ Wed Feb 04, 2009 7:56 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Methods for cutting kerfs in linings?
I use three daiblos on the TS using a sled, and shop cut aluminum spacers .. I also thickness sand the lining stock first, and then the issue of referencing the cutting side you mention Todd goes away.
Author:  Marc [ Wed Feb 04, 2009 8:03 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Methods for cutting kerfs in linings?
It's been a few of years since I used it because I switched to solid linnings, but when I did make kerfed linings I used a miter box and a sliding tray. A depth stop is used on the brass piece of the backsaw. It cuts four pieces at once, takes about 20 minutes for one guitar, simple and worked great.
Attachment:
kerf1.JPG
Author:  Mark Groza [ Wed Feb 04, 2009 8:32 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Methods for cutting kerfs in linings?
I have never bought any.I make my own by cutting stock to size on my table saw, then plane to finish size. Then to the bandsaw to cut the angle by tilting the table and using a stop.To cut the kerf, i clamp a board to my scroll saw for a stop that is marked so i get the same distance apart on each and cut away. I make quite a few all at once to last me awhile.
Author:  Arnt Rian [ Wed Feb 04, 2009 8:35 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Methods for cutting kerfs in linings?
I use mahogany offcuts from neck production etc. which I thickness to about 6 mm. I cut the kerfs on table saw with a 40 tooth thin kerf Dablo blade, and a sled that has an indexing pin which insures that the kerfs are spaced equally apart. I then rip the pieces into individual lining strips and plane these ito a triangular shape in a simple fixture. I is true that the web thickness depends on an accurately thicknessed blank, but that is easy to achieve with a drum sander. The kerfs are not flat bottomed, but this has not cased me any grief.
Author:  Dave Stewart [ Wed Feb 04, 2009 8:38 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Methods for cutting kerfs in linings?
Todd, I expect the method is a bit too slow for you but I did a short tutorial on making reverse-kerfed linings a while ago (under old tutorials), using a bandsaw for the kerfs.

viewtopic.php?f=10102&t=14647"
Author:  Todd Rose [ Wed Feb 04, 2009 12:45 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Methods for cutting kerfs in linings?
All this input from you guys is great. Thanks!

Glad to hear others are using the Diablo blades and not having an issue with the bottom of the kerf not being flat. That puts my mind at ease about that.

I think the web thickness varying a bit more than I'd ideally like had two causes. First, my drum sander is not as accurate as I'd like it to be. I plan to replace it with a Woodmaster as soon as I can afford it. Second, I didn't use a sled. I just used my miter gauge on the table saw, with a fence into which I put an indexing pin. So, I was putting the lining face down directly on the table saw surface, and holding it down with a push block as I slid it over the blade. I used a zero clearance insert, but that may have been part of the problem - the insert was probably not dead flush with the table surface (I tend to set them in just a hair low, to be sure they won't be at all proud of the table). Anyway, I think the bottom line is that it would be more accurate to use a sled.

Thanks again, everybody. I think I'm set with this for now. I'll make a sled next time, and I'll gang three blades on the saw arbor so that it will go faster. I don't really have room for a radial arm saw, anyway...
Author:  Allen McFarlen [ Wed Feb 04, 2009 3:26 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Methods for cutting kerfs in linings?
Here's another one that works on a bandsaw that doesn't have a miter slot.
http://www.anzlf.com/viewtopic.php?t=1269
Author:  Chris Paulick [ Wed Feb 04, 2009 6:45 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Methods for cutting kerfs in linings?
Todd, I haven't made any yet but I'm going to use the table saw instead of a radial saw and use the method that Mike Doolin uses to make his triangluar kerf linings as described in AL#93. There is also a neat jig to cut the strips with using the TS without changing the blade angle for the 90 and beveled cut.
Author:  Frei [ Wed Feb 04, 2009 7:09 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Methods for cutting kerfs in linings?
PaulK wrote:
Todd, if your interested in using a bandsaw with a jig that will automaticaly move the lining piece check out this link
http://www.luthierforum.com/index.php?s ... 6&hl=ksled

Paul


Yes, this really works good, I move my handle by hand, but you just go, Cut, push, cut , push, takes 1 minute to do a 20" section, and is made from scrapply wood etc... Works very well!!
Author:  Todd Rose [ Wed Feb 04, 2009 9:38 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Methods for cutting kerfs in linings?
Chris, thanks for reminding me where I'd seen Mike's method. That is slick.
Author:  DannyV [ Wed Feb 04, 2009 10:25 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Methods for cutting kerfs in linings?
Todd, I had a look at the Dewalt blades today and they are the same as the Freud with angled teeth. A flat tooth would be nice to try but these seem to do the trick. The only reason I bought Dewalt blades was the price. I like Freud products a lot but these work just fine.

Danny
Author:  Todd Rose [ Thu Feb 05, 2009 5:36 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Methods for cutting kerfs in linings?
Thanks, Danny.
Author:  KeithM [ Thu Feb 05, 2009 7:10 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Methods for cutting kerfs in linings?
Ok, I know this is going to get me some abuse but hey I'm in therapy for fixture obsession.
It all started when I found this cool surplus 60RPM gearmotor really cheap!!
I had to buy it right???
You understand right???
So the I remember the drive wheels on the old steam locomotives and I think Yaaaaah!!! kerf sled automation!!! bliss
So I fired up the oil lamp and worked on into the night and here it is:

Works like a charm.

Attachment:
IMG_1718.JPG


Attachment:
IMG_1719.JPG



I still need to add an off ramp for the kerfed lining so it won't flop around and a microswitch to turn it off
when the lining is finished. Then have it ring a bell and fire up the coffee maker. gaah help me!!! [headinwall]
Author:  jordan aceto [ Thu Feb 05, 2009 7:13 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Methods for cutting kerfs in linings?
Woooooooooooooooow
Author:  Hesh [ Thu Feb 05, 2009 7:14 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Methods for cutting kerfs in linings?
Keith that is really cool!!!! [:Y:] [clap] [clap] [clap] [clap]
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