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Lainate Sides - Fish Paper?? Synthetics??
http://www.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10101&t=20832		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  David R White [ Mon Feb 02, 2009 9:57 pm ]
Post subject:  Lainate Sides - Fish Paper?? Synthetics??
I was considering trying .03" fish paper as one half of a laminate guitar side. I have used it for sound hole reinforcement, and it seems to make a stiff uncrackable laminate. Is anyone using this or other non-wood alternatives? The only downside I see is customer perception.
Author:  Howard Klepper [ Mon Feb 02, 2009 11:01 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Lainate Sides - Fish Paper?? Synthetics??
I'd be concerned about damping.
Author:  Greg [ Tue Feb 03, 2009 12:25 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Lainate Sides - Fish Paper?? Synthetics??
Would there be that much damping from a laminated side?
Author:  Howard Klepper [ Tue Feb 03, 2009 1:29 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Lainate Sides - Fish Paper?? Synthetics??
not from laminating with wood. The question is about fish paper--vulcanized randomly oriented wood fibers.
Author:  David Newton [ Tue Feb 03, 2009 10:38 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Lainate Sides - Fish Paper?? Synthetics??
I had to google fish paper to get up to speed, 'lectric paper.

I find myself quoting my hero, Manuel V. too often, but when he spoke of the Torres paper mache' guitar, and someone asked why don't we build paper guitars, he said "you can't get that kind of paper anymore"

David, every time someone asks about alternative materials, or methods, I think: you should do what you are asking about, then come back and tell us what you have discovered.
I hate that I, and others, will offer all the negatives, and then maybe you won't try it.

Surely Orville Gibson would have come here and asked "what if I cut the sides out of a solid wood plank?" I know lots of us would have offered negative responses to him. Think of the interesting & goofy instruments that would NOT have been made by him. What harm was done by him making these beautiful experiments?

Go, and be free David!
Author:  David R White [ Tue Feb 03, 2009 12:44 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Lainate Sides - Fish Paper?? Synthetics??
David, this is the same material that is often used for purflings, bindings, headstock veneers, etc. I agree one needs to take chances but at the same time wouldn't want to spend 100 hours on something that has an obvious flaw I haven't thought of.

Howard, you make a good point about damping. I'm pretty sure this could be built to provide rigid sides that don't dampen the movement of the top and back plates, but would it absorb rather than reflect sound? (I hope I understood you correctly). If it is absorptive perhaps it could be made reflective by applying CA after it is laminated.
Author:  Clay S. [ Thu Feb 05, 2009 7:02 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Lainate Sides - Fish Paper?? Synthetics??
Hi David White,
You might try using vertical grade high pressure laminate (formica) as the inner half of a laminated side. I have built guitars and dulcimers using HPL (even before Martin did) for the backs and sides using standard grade (thicker) stuff by itself. There is also a product that combines real wood with a substrate of HPL. At some point I will give that a go.
The HPL should have low damping and if turned melamine side in will have a very smooth interior.HPL is phenolic impregnated paper. It can be glued on the non melamine side with yellow glue or contact cement. Torres would have loved it.[:Y:]
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