OH don't ya just hate that
![[headinwall]](./images/smilies/headbangwalluf8.gif "Mad")
You may be able to steam that dent back, I'll let others comment. Worst case scenario you splint it. Good news is there is no finish on the guitar yet. you will be able to hide that.
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| Late night = Top Repair http://www.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10101&t=20725 |
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| Author: | justink [ Wed Jan 28, 2009 10:57 am ] |
| Post subject: | Late night = Top Repair |
So, many of you will undoubtedly be slowly shaking your head, thinking, "Well, that is one way to learn this lesson!" while you read this. I did that all of last night and this morning... So, last night I was working on the dovetail mortise on my 1st build - trying to get the clearance slot for the truss rod adjuster nut to be perfect. It was late (for me at least), my contacts had been bothering me, and my mind had already moved on to another great fear - cutting my first dovetailed tenon, since I bought a Martin head-block with pre-cut mortise. I was using a small file with a square end and slipped and ARRRRRRRGGGGGGGGGGGGG!!!!!!!! A nice little gash in my beautiful, otherwise nearly perfect (thus far) top. I slowly set down the file, walked away, tried to control my breathing, turned off the light and went to bed. Now I am trying to figure out how to fix it. I have read through the archives about repairing, but am not totally sure exactly what to do. I have read about steaming it out (my Dad also recommend this to me) and about trying to fill with a splinter from the top cut offs. Have a look and let me know what you think. Thanks all for your help. I am learning lessons, slowly (or maybe rather quickly...), but beginning to appreciate the saying - "a mistake will teach you more than anything else." |
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| Author: | justink [ Wed Jan 28, 2009 10:59 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Late night = Top Repair |
OH, one more thing - The top is about .110 thick right there, the gash in probably between .020 and .040" deep and i'd say about .100 wide. Not pretty. |
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| Author: | jfmckenna [ Wed Jan 28, 2009 11:01 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Late night = Top Repair |
OH don't ya just hate that You may be able to steam that dent back, I'll let others comment. Worst case scenario you splint it. Good news is there is no finish on the guitar yet. you will be able to hide that. |
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| Author: | Piiman [ Wed Jan 28, 2009 11:31 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Late night = Top Repair |
How 'bout an Everly Brothers stye pickguard  Seriously though you should be able to steam most of that out, a bit of sanding and if still needed a litlle drop fill and you should be good to go 
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| Author: | Hesh [ Wed Jan 28, 2009 11:51 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Late night = Top Repair |
Justin try this first: http://luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10117&t=20604 It's benign and may just do the trick although that dent looks pretty substantial. |
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| Author: | Stephen Boone [ Wed Jan 28, 2009 11:55 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Late night = Top Repair |
If you can learn from doing that only once then you are a better man than me! |
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| Author: | Pat Foster [ Wed Jan 28, 2009 11:58 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Late night = Top Repair |
A lot of that will steam out, but since the wood fibers are broken, it will show some. I don't mean to sound flippant here, but think of it as a badge of honor that your first guitar will wear proudly forever. Mine has some, and they don't seem to hurt it a bit. They're sort of blending in with the everyday wear and tear from kids and gigging. Some folks would dig it out and inlay a matching piece of spruce from the cutoffs. It would have to have matching grain and runout. Best source might be from where you trimmed the top to shape after jointing, along the same grain lines. Next best might be from under the fretboard, from the same side of the the center. Use hot hide glue for the least visible glue, with clear plastic caul, taking care not to overclamp, which could crack the top. Practice on scrap first to see if you can pull it off. Frank Ford has a bit about that on his website. With what little more I know now than when I built my first, I'd steam it, drop fill, hope for the best, and get on with it. In the near future, it will not seem as bad as it is right now. Pat |
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| Author: | Howard Klepper [ Wed Jan 28, 2009 11:59 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Late night = Top Repair |
Welcome to the club. Here's what you do: Steam it up. You can do that now, or wait until you are sanding out at the end. But you will be happier if you do it now. What I do for steaming is take a piece of cotton T-shirt, wet it damp, not dripping, put it over the spot and touch a hot soldering iron to it. Repeat until it doesn't come up anymore. You have some tearing there, so it won't be perfect, but you will be surprised at how good it can get. No point doing any more until final sand out. When you get to a mid-grit, like 120 or so, fill with epoxy using a dulled razor blade for your putty knife to remove excess. Epoxy because you want something that will not continue shrinking. Give it overnight to harden, then finish sanding out level. After finishing, you will be able to find the spot, but others won't notice. Don't splint. You will make it worse. |
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| Author: | Mike Franks [ Wed Jan 28, 2009 12:04 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Late night = Top Repair |
Man, I wish that I could tell you that I have never been in your shoes! One of the biggest challanges in building a guitar is getting to the end of the project without any self-inflicted damage. I know what your night of sleep must have been like but you were wise in walking away and dealing with it the next day. The first thing that I would say is that unless you can sand completely through the damage, you are not going to be able to make it invisible. Steam may help but it can't fix the cut fibers that your pictures clearly show. I would strongly recommend against attempting to splice in new wood as it will only look considerably worse. If anyone knows how to splice new wood into the middle of a top and make it invisible, I would dearly love to see how they do it. I would suggest that you minimize the damage by steaming the spot. This will raise the fibers of the wood and help to close up the depression. Use the tip of a cloths iron set on high. (Don't be tempted to use a soldering iron because it can and will scorch the spruce). Double up a piece of paper towel and cut a 1" square. Soak the square in clean water and press it over the area soaking the damaged spot. Then use the tip of the hot iron to create heat and steam until the paper is dry. Repeat this several times. After allowing the top to completely dry, sand the top until the area blends. Avoid fixating on the spot while sanding or you will risk creating a depression that will show after you apply your finish. I wouldn't get too discouraged. From your pictures, I think that you are doing a fine job, especially for your first guitar. That little nick will not be a big deal when you are finished with your guitar. Now, have you considered a sunburst? Mike Franks http://www.mjfranksguitar.com |
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| Author: | Darrin D Oilar [ Wed Jan 28, 2009 12:31 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Late night = Top Repair |
I don't have any expertise to add. When I was building my 1966 Mustang, I was putting the driver's side mirror on when the screw wouldnt bite into the metal. I pushed a little and the screwdriver slipped. I gouged the paint. Hundreds of hours block sanding, hundreds of hours color sanding, and now I had a beautiful gouge right where I would see it everytime I got into the car. My brother who is a car guy had warned me ahead of time though. He had instructed to me to take a screwdriver and scratch the crap out of an inconspicuous spot. When I asked why, thinking for a ground or something, he said "So you don't throw up all over yourself the first time something happens to her." Maybe we should do that with the guitars too. Scar up the backside of the tail block or something. Darrin |
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| Author: | Hesh [ Wed Jan 28, 2009 12:47 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Late night = Top Repair |
Jeeze I would have never thought of steaming it out.......   
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| Author: | Mike Franks [ Wed Jan 28, 2009 1:39 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Late night = Top Repair |
You should write a tutorial, Hesh  Mike Franks www.mjfranksguitar.com |
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| Author: | Hesh [ Wed Jan 28, 2009 1:41 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Late night = Top Repair |
Mike Franks wrote: Yeah - good idea Mike bro!
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| Author: | Joe Sabin [ Wed Jan 28, 2009 2:13 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Late night = Top Repair |
You did the right thing, put down the tools and turned out the lights. That's the hardest thing to do after a boo-boo happens. I know all too often I'll want to rectify it so I can sleep. I've learned to do exactly that, go away! Good for you. It'll probably steam out, I'm with the others. It's an ugly little divet though. 
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| Author: | Dave Ellingsworth [ Wed Jan 28, 2009 3:19 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Late night = Top Repair |
Darrin D Oilar wrote: I don't have any expertise to add. When I was building my 1966 Mustang, I was putting the driver's side mirror on when the screw wouldnt bite into the metal. I pushed a little and the screwdriver slipped. I gouged the paint. Hundreds of hours block sanding, hundreds of hours color sanding, and now I had a beautiful gouge right where I would see it everytime I got into the car. My brother who is a car guy had warned me ahead of time though. He had instructed to me to take a screwdriver and scratch the crap out of an inconspicuous spot. When I asked why, thinking for a ground or something, he said "So you don't throw up all over yourself the first time something happens to her." Maybe we should do that with the guitars too. Scar up the backside of the tail block or something. Darrin Kinda like tipping the canoe on purpose at the put in point, so the girl in the front seat of your canoe who's afraid of tipping can just get it over with, then relax, right? Of course, as long as you don't have the beer cooler in your canoe! dave |
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| Author: | Brad T [ Wed Jan 28, 2009 3:22 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Late night = Top Repair |
Joe Sabin wrote: You did the right thing, put down the tools and turned out the lights. That's the hardest thing to do after a boo-boo happens. I know all too often I'll want to rectify it so I can sleep. I've learned to do exactly that, go away! Good for you. It'll probably steam out, I'm with the others. It's an ugly little divet though. Nah...the hardest thing is is to stop before you goof. I'm with the other guys....steam it. You may be surprised at how much it will come out. Not all of it, because I see some broken fibers, but....what the others said. |
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| Author: | Hesh [ Wed Jan 28, 2009 6:17 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Late night = Top Repair |
Good points all Todd and thanks for making them. When I do something in the way of a tutorial comments, criticisms, additions are always welcome and you will find many of all of these sorts of input in most toots that I have done. The dent toot did not benefit from anyone else's input at the detail level that you have provided here and it would be a much better discussion if it had. Since the thread is still open would you please cut-and-paste your above post into the dent thread or permit me to quote you, as above, and add it to the thread? Many thanks. |
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| Author: | justink [ Wed Jan 28, 2009 7:53 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Late night = Top Repair |
This forum is incredible. Thank you guys all very much for your awesome advice and also encouragement. I am a bit of a perfectionist (I'm sure that sounds familiar around here ) and seeing my first major crater was not a good moment. But, I am doing a lot better today and definitely cheered by you guys. I will give the above advice a try and see how much I can steam out for now. Maybe try a few times and then re-address it before I finish it. Thanks again all - I can't imagine building this thing without this incredible resource! |
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| Author: | Flori F. [ Thu Jan 29, 2009 11:20 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Late night = Top Repair |
justink wrote: This forum is incredible. Thank you guys all very much for your awesome advice and also encouragement. I am a bit of a perfectionist (I'm sure that sounds familiar around here ) and seeing my first major crater was not a good moment. But, I am doing a lot better today and definitely cheered by you guys. I will give the above advice a try and see how much I can steam out for now. Maybe try a few times and then re-address it before I finish it. Thanks again all - I can't imagine building this thing without this incredible resource! Justin, I don't know if anyone else has asked. Did you build this top with a radius? If so, you may still want to sand the upper bout flat for the fretboard extension. And from what I can tell, your ding falls into that area. If you are going to sand flat, that'd give you a little extra leeway. It may not take out the ding. But I thought I'd mention it. |
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| Author: | justink [ Fri Jan 30, 2009 9:50 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Late night = Top Repair |
Thanks guys for the help! Yes, it is a radiused top - about 25' so there is a bit of curve to it, but not too much under my fb extension. I still haven't flatted the little bit of curve out there, though, so maybe that will take out a majority of that gash. I'll check out that jig and give it a shot after I steam it out as best I can. Hopefully with steam and sanding there won't be too much left to fill before I finish it. Thanks again all who have helped with this. It is fruastrating at first, but I definitely am learning a bunch from this one little mistake
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| Author: | Colin S [ Fri Jan 30, 2009 10:03 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Late night = Top Repair |
Just read Howard's post. 99% of the time Howard is right, this is part of the 99%. The other 1%? Well that's when I don't agree and I'm right 100%. Colin |
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