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| Copy Carver: Worth it? http://www.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10101&t=20673 |
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| Author: | Jarcher1991 [ Sun Jan 25, 2009 12:40 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Copy Carver: Worth it? |
Hello everyone It's been some time since I last posted a topic. My dad and I have been at the luthierie thing for near 2 years now, and right at the beginning, he stumbled on to the famed "Copy Carver" device. Just recently, the pages he printed off resurfaced on the workbench, and so did the interest in the apparatus. I was wondering if some of you have made one and used it, and if you felt it was really a useful tool to you. It seems to me that it would be a dream for necks, bridges, and for the solid-body builder, a real time saver. I've not seen one in action, but I'd sure like to, and I'd sure like to hear your stories if you've used one. We'll probably be building one anyway, but I'd like to get a feel from y'all for what to expect from it in guitar-related projects. PS: For those of you who havent a clue what I'm talking about...go to "www.copycarver.com" for the full scoop! |
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| Author: | jordan aceto [ Sun Jan 25, 2009 1:47 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Copy Carver: Worth it? |
Several years ago i was seriously considering making or purchasing a duplicator, mostly for archtop instruments. I did a lot of thinking, and came to the conclusion that at my volume of building i would be better off just rolling up my sleeves and going at it with a big plane. There are a bunch of things to consider -Either shop built or purchased, they are resource heavy. I like to keep the money flowing towards ME as much as possible. -There is the hidden cost of having to make a new form every time you change or add something, and the time spent setting up the machine and maintaining it. Also they are space hogs. -Being tied to a copier reduces your flexibility, what if you think lower flatter archings are best for this guitar? Or higher? Making a form takes almost as long as just making the actual instrument. If you dont have standard models, the machine doesnt speed anything up. -Necks are pretty quick to make using normal methods. -For solidbodies, it would be pretty cool. But a pin router is probably more usefull, and it is easier to make a router template than a full copying machine form. -It is not very enjoyable to spend your day at a machine like this, its loud and dusty and dangerous, and generally not the romantic ideal people have in their head when thinking about lutherie. -It probably all comes down to volume, you know if your buisiness is being limited by how fast you can crank out parts. Saving time mostly only matters if you have more work to do in the time you saved. Increasing the quality of your time does matter, a duplicator may do that for you. |
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| Author: | douglas ingram [ Sun Jan 25, 2009 1:58 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Copy Carver: Worth it? |
What Jordan said! Useful if you're going to make a bunch of the same parts. A lot of times, if you're just making one part, you can just go in directly and make it and be done by the time you're finished setting up a machine. |
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| Author: | Kent Chasson [ Sun Jan 25, 2009 2:14 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Copy Carver: Worth it? |
I second everything Jordan said. I've been considering building a small one dedicated to just doing heels but it's not clearly worthwhile. I've been talking to another builder about doing necks for him and even doubling production, it's still marginal. I shape the rest of the neck in ways that are much faster and cleaner but I do my heels by hand on a drill press spindle sander. I takes me about 20 minutes to get it ready for hand sanding. I can't imagine a duplicarver taking much less time and the time to build it and dial it in to do a clean job on different size necks would be extensive. And it would be less enjoyable. |
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| Author: | Jarcher1991 [ Sun Jan 25, 2009 3:15 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Copy Carver: Worth it? |
Thanks guys Jordan makes some strong points here, and they will be considered, I appreciate everyone's input here...thank you all. |
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| Author: | jordan aceto [ Sun Jan 25, 2009 3:22 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Copy Carver: Worth it? |
I dont want to sound like i presume to know if it would be beneficial to your shop, i was just sharing my thought process from when i was considering one. Our intended uses are slightly different also. If you do make one, definately post pictures. |
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| Author: | Jarcher1991 [ Sun Jan 25, 2009 3:47 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Copy Carver: Worth it? |
I'll do that. Like I said originally, I think we ARE making one... I just wanted everyone's experiences with such a thing. And I'm really glad that you shared those thoughts with me Jordan, i really am. I hope that it does work for me though, and if it doesn't I'll just chalk it up as experience. I'll be posting a thread, whether it works or not. So thanks again bud! |
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| Author: | Mark Groza [ Sun Jan 25, 2009 4:31 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Copy Carver: Worth it? |
I'm building one to copy prs bodies.It will be alot faster and accurate that way.I also have a body i designed that i want to reproduce as well.They are suppose to save alot of time.I've got everything built, just need some pulleys for wheels.I won't be able to use it in the winter because of it's size, which is too big for my shop right now.I plan to finish it in the spring when the weather changes.Good Luck with yours. ![[:Y:]](./images/smilies/smiley20.gif "Thumbs Up")
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| Author: | Marc Lupien [ Sun Jan 25, 2009 10:16 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Copy Carver: Worth it? |
I have built one when I began my "business" and I still use it to rough carve necks. I have built it big enough that I can copy arch-top plates... but I have used it only for necks. If I had to do it again, I would not! I would buy a commercial machine... The cost of the parts was quite high since linear bearings and hardened shafts are required... and since I do not have welding capabilities, I used flat stock that could be bolted and the final machine is not as stiff as it should be... It is therefore slower to use. It takes me about 20 minutes to rough carve a neck! My 2 cents are therefore to buy a commercial machine if you can afford one... Marc |
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| Author: | Erik Hauri [ Mon Jan 26, 2009 5:21 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Copy Carver: Worth it? |
I built one a while back made of surplus stuff, sort of like Marc's (2-axis with hardened rods and pillow blocks), it has a router and follows a stylus made of an alumiumum rod - everything actuated entirely by hand. I use it for a lot of things - mostly like as an overhead router - rarely for copying anything. 
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