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| Why Isn't This Walnut Dark When Dressed Out? http://www.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10101&t=20648 |
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| Author: | Chris Paulick [ Fri Jan 23, 2009 4:01 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Why Isn't This Walnut Dark When Dressed Out? |
I was dressing out some Walnut for some necks a 2 X 6 and it was a nice chocolate brown all the way around. But here's how it looks when I dressed the two faces. What's going on? Is it still not dried? Will it darken with time? |
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| Author: | Alexandru Marian [ Fri Jan 23, 2009 4:19 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Why Isn't This Walnut Dark When Dressed Out? |
You mean the interior turned lighter in color towards the center of the board? I noticed similar with several rosewood pieces. For example old brazilian headplates and bridges that were an extremely dark brown near black at the outside but the interiors were stripey and lighter, from brown to tan even. I've also had a surprise planing this set of Madagascar sides. They are thick 4.5-5mm, the exterior 1mm was very dark, then started to show light streaks, in the end revealing a completely light interior. The patches are left over of the dark exterior. Fortunately the dark surface is more than deep enough to allow for scraping and sanding while the patchy side will be in the interior of the guitar. In reality it looks worse and the patches are hideous, same under finish. |
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| Author: | Kent Chasson [ Fri Jan 23, 2009 4:27 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Why Isn't This Walnut Dark When Dressed Out? |
Air dried, un-seasoned (wet) walnut will do that. Where did you get it? If that's the case, it will darken but it's going to be a long time before it will be ready to use for necks. |
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| Author: | Bob Hames [ Fri Jan 23, 2009 5:05 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Why Isn't This Walnut Dark When Dressed Out? |
Hi Chris If you hadn't said it was brown all round before thicknessing It sure looks like walnut sapwood. Some claim that burying in a manure pile for a number of years is effective. Cheers Bob |
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| Author: | Mark Groza [ Fri Jan 23, 2009 5:07 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Why Isn't This Walnut Dark When Dressed Out? |
Looks like you got some sapwood.And rejuvinated it by dressing. |
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| Author: | TonyKarol [ Fri Jan 23, 2009 5:08 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Why Isn't This Walnut Dark When Dressed Out? |
oxidation .... |
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| Author: | Chris Paulick [ Fri Jan 23, 2009 5:21 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Why Isn't This Walnut Dark When Dressed Out? |
Looks like oxidation is the answer. Mario ask about the one unplaned surface and said it's probably an old board that had oxidizes. The full board ends were painted blue. I sanded the end cuts and it looks like the planed sides are into the sap wood. I think I'm still going to use it as with a maple ,walnut, maple center strip it might make for an interesting neck. I didn't know Walnut would do that. Live and learn. 
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| Author: | Dennis Leahy [ Fri Jan 23, 2009 6:24 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Why Isn't This Walnut Dark When Dressed Out? |
Todd Stock wrote: Walnut will oxidize to a darker color, then after 80 years or so will start to lighten, finally getting to a near golden/blonde color....amazing how often I used to see antiques which were walnut, but labeled as butternut...you could get some good deals that way. If the Walnut gets good UV exposure (like a picture frame on a wall in a sunny room), the chocolate brown heartwood will fade pretty quickly to a light gray-brown. I'd say more like 1 to 2 years, rather than 80. The majority of American Black Walnut sold commercially in the US is steamed. The process of steaming (according to the largest processor of Walnut in the US) "caramelizes" the sugars in the sapwood, changing the sapwood from a beautiful creamy white to a dull gray-brown. That dull gray-brown sapwood hides pretty well in furniture made of Walnut, so the production furniture manufacturers favor steamed Walnut. However, the steaming process also destroys the incredible palette of colors found in air-dried or even kiln-dried Walnut that is not steamed. Look for Walnut from smaller, local mills that cannot afford or just don't want to steam their wood, and you'll see what I mean. You'll be able to pick it out from across the room - because the sapwood will be creamy white. Dennis |
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| Author: | joel Thompson [ Fri Jan 23, 2009 6:50 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Why Isn't This Walnut Dark When Dressed Out? |
yep oxidisation. a rough peice of stock that has been sitting in a storage shed for 5 years or so can look lovely and dark but as soon as you plane off the oxidised layers it will show fresh unoxidised wood underneath. black walnut can be very light when freshly planed give it a wipe with naptha and you should get an idea of what it will look like when its got a finish on. also with some woods they can really dark when they are kiln dried. take cocobolo for example when its kilned the resins get forced out the wood and gives the wood a really dark crusty coat this can happen with other woods as well but i am not sure about walnut. in this case its probably just oxidisation. Joel. |
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| Author: | Howard Klepper [ Fri Jan 23, 2009 7:07 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Why Isn't This Walnut Dark When Dressed Out? |
What do you mean by "dressed out?" |
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| Author: | Chris Paulick [ Fri Jan 23, 2009 7:12 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Why Isn't This Walnut Dark When Dressed Out? |
What do you think I mean? |
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| Author: | Mark Groza [ Fri Jan 23, 2009 8:06 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Why Isn't This Walnut Dark When Dressed Out? |
Chris,Those pictures say sapwood -heartwood board as i thought earlier.You get that color difference when a board is not all heartwood.It would make a nice back plate though.Sapwood will turn dark when it sits for awhile as the tannic acid oxidises in the air turns it dark that way.Then when you planed it, the light sapwood came back. |
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| Author: | Mark Groza [ Fri Jan 23, 2009 8:24 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Why Isn't This Walnut Dark When Dressed Out? |
Chris, Here is a pic. of a walnut board i milled last year.You can see the sapwood on the top where the limbs started off the crotch on this one. |
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| Author: | Howard Klepper [ Sat Jan 24, 2009 12:39 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Why Isn't This Walnut Dark When Dressed Out? |
Chris Paulick wrote: What do you think I mean? I have no idea what you mean, which is why I asked. If you are here to play games, and unclever ones at that, I have no further time for your questions. |
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| Author: | jordan aceto [ Sat Jan 24, 2009 1:04 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Why Isn't This Walnut Dark When Dressed Out? |
Uhhhhh, "dressing" a board just means cleaning up the rough sawn surface by planing in order to see the character of the wood. |
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| Author: | Chris Paulick [ Sat Jan 24, 2009 1:50 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Why Isn't This Walnut Dark When Dressed Out? |
Howard, I thought you were joking as to the way I stated it as Dressed Out. Yes when you dress ruff sawed lumber you usually plane on flat side on the jointer and get it true and then the edge to get a straight and square corner to locate the other cuts from such as width and a flat surface for re sawing or running it through a thickness sander or planer. Howard, I can't tell when you are joking or not sometimes because I think you don't use the smile faces. As I remember an old discussion at MIMF where you sort of made a big deal of putting <g> or <G> after your jokes. I thought you were aware of the use of dressing lumber, I thought that was a common term. So don't get so bent out of shape just because I was thinking you were playing games with me. It's an honest mistake, Sorry. |
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| Author: | Howard Klepper [ Sat Jan 24, 2009 3:10 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Why Isn't This Walnut Dark When Dressed Out? |
OK, let's forget it. |
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| Author: | Chris Paulick [ Sat Jan 24, 2009 3:19 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Why Isn't This Walnut Dark When Dressed Out? |
Forget what?
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| Author: | cphanna [ Sat Jan 24, 2009 6:06 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Why Isn't This Walnut Dark When Dressed Out? |
Hi, Chris. Your shot of the end grain does, indeed, show a lot of sapwood, so, okay, you've determined that through your own investigation. I don't know how much walnut you've worked with, but it's not all that difficult to stain that sapwood. The raw sapwood itself will have essentially the same properties as the heartwood--just none of the color. I encourage you to do a little experimenting and see if you can come up with an applied stain that suits you. IF SO, you can use these woods with darker pieces. IF NOT, you can still use them in combination with lighter woods. You have a nice sense of design and you will be fine. Press on! Patrick |
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