Now Martin start using Ovangkol (Mozambique) and black limba ("Democratic" Republic of Congo). It's not a green choice.

Anything out of the "DRC"...

Got to love marketing...wonder what an end-to-end impact analysis shows? Can't be the only one to consider 'Green' to be synonomous with 'Sucker'.

South Park's episode where SoCal is ravaged by a 'perfect storm' of both smog and 'smug' (the emissions from self-satisfied hybrid auto owners) was a brilliant piece of satire highlighting the demonstrable truth that most 'green' products and services are targeted at raising buyer self esteem, versus making any measurable reduction in impact of manufacture/use/disposal on the environment.

I see both sides of this issue.

First of all, "Green" is a meaningless word. Kind of like "All Natural" on a food label. Uranium and cow pies are all natural but I wouldn't want to eat them.

And yes, a big company making 1 out of every 1000 guitars from a traceable source isn't necessarily making an impact and can be accused of being hypocritical.

On the other hand, it's beyond question that the way we're using old growth wood is not sustainable and all efforts to bring attention to that, real or cynical, can help change awareness.

Look at what happened with smoking in the US. My dad is a retired pathologist. He saw firsthand the effects of smoking and quit in the early 60's. It took awhile for the rest of the US to catch on. But bit by bit, things added up until critical mass was reached and things changed in a big way.

Same thing seems to be happening with global warming.

It's gotta start somewhere with guitars.

Not a big Kool Aid drinker, so I'll bow out of this discussion.

For whatever reason and to whatever purpose, the issue has been coopted for purely political purposes by ne'erdowells of all stripes, so I don't believe it's possible to tread much beyond the ground already covered without stepping off into either politics or religion - both out of bounds here on the grassy knoll we call the OLF.

As to good whiskey...I'll drink to that!

Todd, I did not think I was getting into politics or religion I was just talking about making the best use of old growth timber. To give you an idea old growth Tasmanian Red Myrtle.
It takes about 3 cubic metres of log to get i cubic metre of guitar sets.
Return to the Tasmanian economy appropriately $20,000 and thats before it gets to the States and is value added even more turned into guitars.
3 cubic metres of Red Myrtle turned into wood chips return to the economy of Tasmania $300.00 big difference thats all I am saying is make better use of old growth timbers.
Regards Robert

For whatever reason and to whatever purpose, the issue has been coopted for purely political purposes by ne'erdowells of all stripes, so I don't believe it's possible to tread much beyond the ground already covered without stepping off into either politics or religion - both out of bounds here on the grassy knoll we call the OLF.

As to good whiskey...I'll drink to that!

Mock and disparage? Mmm...thought we were discussing the issue.

On the timber issue, I've spent a good deal of time in both the Amazonian river basin and upland forest areas of Columbia, Ecuador, or other countries ...

... a one-size-fits-all solution built around elimination of human activity is just plain silly....

Having sat in on more than a few contract proposal meetings where we tried to lever in 'Green' and 'Environmental Impact Reductions' as often as possible, I would prefer to be somewhat less well informed as to just how little impact we have for dollars spent, and thus, perhaps a little happier in abundant ignorance.

Not sure what he was referring to but the kool-aid remark sounded mocking and/or disparaging to me. Maybe I misunderstood.



For backs, sides, and necks, there are plenty of alternatives to rain forest wood, many that are already market accepted, some that are sustainable by any definition, and more are becoming accepted all the time. I'm more concerned about top wood.



Not sure what you mean.



Who's "we"?

Yes, greed is hard to overcome. And the realistic and pragmatic use of money and our personal energy should be a priorty.

Like entropy (or a buffing wheel), it takes a lot more energy to build something than to ruin it. But if nothing else, those of us who build guitars are persitent. One of my goals is to start bringing that persistence to a critical look at the way I use resources. Seems like this is an appropriate place to talk about that.

Good to see discussion on these topics and good to see Martin making an attempt to change their ways. Whether marketing or a genuine attempt to change, in a hundred years this style of guitar will be the norm and only the very rich will be able to afford a solid wood guitar as we know it today. There will be another 4 billion people on earth by then.
One of humans biggest failings is our inability to accept the consequences of our collective actions. Whether deforestation or climate change or pollution, we can ignore the warnings for a while, but we can't avoid the consequences.
Dom