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What do you use to hold your bindings while glueing?
http://www.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10101&t=20614		 Page 1 of 2
Author:  Mark Groza [ Wed Jan 21, 2009 10:21 am ]
Post subject:  What do you use to hold your bindings while glueing?
I know some use the tape,but if more pressure is required,what else do you use? Especually when using the LMI or TB white glue? I just want a back up plan if the tape doesn't hold tight enough.So i keep intertube rubber handy just in case. Any other ideas?
Author:  Alain Moisan [ Wed Jan 21, 2009 10:31 am ]
Post subject:  Re: What do you use to hold your bindings while glueing?
Elastic bands.
Author:  jordan aceto [ Wed Jan 21, 2009 10:32 am ]
Post subject:  Re: What do you use to hold your bindings while glueing?
Neon green auto store tape or the binding tape from stewmac/lmi work almost everywhere. Filament tape is good to have on hand for the waist and any problem areas.
Author:  Michael Dale Payne [ Wed Jan 21, 2009 10:53 am ]
Post subject:  Re: What do you use to hold your bindings while glueing?
The only area that really needs more pressure than the strapping tape I use is waist and just either side of the waist (provided the binding was properly bent and fitted in the first place) strapping tape provides a better hold strength that the Stewmac binding tape or for me it seems to anyway. plus it reacts far less to CA and other glues. But back on topic in for the waist and the transition in and out of tight wasted guitars I made clamping cauls that fit on a quick release bar clamp that I use to pull these areas in snug. Depending on the body shape these cauls are simply a short piece of pvc pipe or a UHMW shape of the entire waist valley if need due to an extremely tight waist like on my MJ
Author:  Hesh [ Wed Jan 21, 2009 11:08 am ]
Post subject:  Re: What do you use to hold your bindings while glueing?
To build a bit on Michael's reply there is a HUGE point that he made and I don't want to get lost.

If you fit your binding well and I am speaking of bending wood bindings you won't need a great deal of clamping force to snug things up. I bend my bindings in the Fox style bender and trial fit. If they don't look gapless with approximately 1/3 as much of the Stew-Mac/LMI brown tape that I use for glue-up out comes the bending iron and I make sure that I have my pants on...... With the bending iron I touch up the bindings if required, but this is usually not required, and then I glue them in place with brown tape.

I would use the strapping tape for the waist area if I could ever remember to buy some when in a store..... [headinwall] but just doubling up the brown tape works fine for me.

A little extra time fitting can save a whole lot of time clamping and perhaps having to fix the dreaded gap(s).
Author:  Michael Dale Payne [ Wed Jan 21, 2009 11:59 am ]
Post subject:  Re: What do you use to hold your bindings while glueing?
Todd is dead on here about chamfering the inside bottom edge of bindings to help insure a good fit. The first place a straight cut bit wears is the outside corner. Plus this is the part of the bit that sees the most push off. This can lead to an inside corner that is a thousands or so narrow or with a worn bit rounded over. By chamfering the inside lower edge of the binding just a tad you will improve the fit considerably

Also it is so much simpler to fit your bindings than it is to force your bindings to conform. A minute or two on a hot pipe saves tens of minutes when gluing in place.
Author:  martinedwards [ Wed Jan 21, 2009 12:04 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: What do you use to hold your bindings while glueing?
bog standard masking tape.

if the bindings are bent to the right shape beforehand then there shouldn't be much springback anyway.

I've had very few problems.

Image
Author:  Barry Daniels [ Wed Jan 21, 2009 12:31 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: What do you use to hold your bindings while glueing?
Someone here recently mentioned bending the binding at the waist in the downward direction (sort of a 3-D bend) to fit the curvature of the back. I did this recently for an OM and it did seem to help. It is sort of difficult to accomplish this sideways bend on a hot pipe, so I installed a little stud in the pipe to have something to push against. This sideways bend is also what seems to work against you on Florentine cutaways. Anyone have a good solution for this problem?
Author:  Michael Dale Payne [ Wed Jan 21, 2009 12:49 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: What do you use to hold your bindings while glueing?
Barry Daniels wrote:
Someone here recently mentioned bending the binding at the waist in the downward direction (sort of a 3-D bend) to fit the curvature of the back. I did this recently for an OM and it did seem to help. It is sort of difficult to accomplish this sideways bend on a hot pipe, so I installed a little stud in the pipe to have something to push against. This sideways bend is also what seems to work against you on Florentine cutaways. Anyone have a good solution for this problem?


Yep this is a transition where it takes a bit of downward pressure to make the elevation transition for lack of a better term. I don't worry with it too much as I have had little problem getting the binding to conform on normal bouts. It takes a bit more fuss on a cutaway but I have come up with no good solution other than just dealing with it.
Author:  Hesh [ Wed Jan 21, 2009 1:39 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: What do you use to hold your bindings while glueing?
I just bound an OM in the last couple of days. Although I had not heard about introducing some side pressure while bending what I have been doing is upon removing the bindings from the bender sighting down them and choosing the two that are the least straight and using them for the back. Of course this could also end up being two favoring one side or the other but at least some of the bindings get selected to conform to the greater dome of the back this way.
Author:  jfmckenna [ Wed Jan 21, 2009 2:17 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: What do you use to hold your bindings while glueing?
I always rope my bindings. I don't like dealing with tape. You can get cotton sash chord from a hardware store, don't use nylon. I use a flat cotton tape that I got at a sewing store, not really sure what it is for but it's about 1 inch wide so it grabs the bindings real well and you can put a lot of pressure if you need to pull the binding into a tight fit.
Author:  TonyKarol [ Wed Jan 21, 2009 4:32 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: What do you use to hold your bindings while glueing?
The solution I have for binding a deep florentine cutaways is this .. if possible make your own binding. This allows you to bend the cutaway binding without the purf lines glued on. As well, make that binding strip taller - like 3/8 if you have the material to do so. Then after its bent, I clamp a block plane upside down in a vise, and plane a curve that matches that of the binding channel into the bottom of the binding piece - you will be planing the binding mostly to fit in the cutaway area thats the deepest, as it rises the most away from the neck and florentine tip (look into the cutaway from the side, and you will see the rise in the channel as it follows the curve ofthe top, I use a 28 foot bowl). Once you have planed a curve into the bottom edge of the biding, now you need to trim the whole piece to the right height, taking into account your purf height. So what you are doing is taking say a 1/4 inch piece of binding out of a 3/8 tall pece. and curving it as you plane so that it has a rise in the middle to fit the channel. Hopefully that all makes sense.
Author:  phil [ Wed Jan 21, 2009 11:17 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: What do you use to hold your bindings while glueing?
don't forget to stick your purfs into the fox bender as well. i've found that to make a huge difference to how tight i can fit the bindings into the waist with just tape. often you can make the purfs fit without any prebending, but they end up offering some resistance which doesn't help the cause.

phil
Author:  Barry Daniels [ Thu Jan 22, 2009 10:47 am ]
Post subject:  Re: What do you use to hold your bindings while glueing?
Tony, That is a great and simple solution. Thanks!
Author:  archtop [ Thu Jan 22, 2009 12:27 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: What do you use to hold your bindings while glueing?
On my next build I decided to use celluloid nitrate as my binding. I've never used celluloid before but decided I wanted to try it. I'm told that acetone is great for laminating certain strips, etc... Of course too much and you can wind up with mush! Anyway, I purchased the Stew Mac laminating jig. I plan on using that. Besides using some binding tape, do you think I'll need much more? Should I start cutting up an inner tube? :) I know most of you guys use wood which is a totally different ball game. Any tips are appreciated.
-John
Author:  John Platko [ Thu Jan 22, 2009 12:48 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: What do you use to hold your bindings while glueing?
I use rubber rope made from an old inner tube, that's how Al Carruth taught me to do it. It's very persuasive on ill fitting bindings. And it saves you a trip to the gym too.
Author:  Fred Tellier [ Thu Jan 22, 2009 1:10 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: What do you use to hold your bindings while glueing?
While reading about the rubber to hold the binding, I was wondering if anyone has used rubber tubing. RC modelers use it to launch gliders, it has a lot of force when stretched. It would be as easy to wrap as rope, but I think would be easier to use, but probably more costly to buy.

Fred
Author:  Mark Groza [ Thu Jan 22, 2009 1:59 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: What do you use to hold your bindings while glueing?
Fred Tellier wrote:
While reading about the rubber to hold the binding, I was wondering if anyone has used rubber tubing. RC modelers use it to launch gliders, it has a lot of force when stretched. It would be as easy to wrap as rope, but I think would be easier to use, but probably more costly to buy.

Fred

I've heard of some useing surgical tubeing.I would also think it would be expensive to buy as well, so i use inter-tube rubber, it's free.
Author:  efialtis [ Thu Jan 22, 2009 2:05 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: What do you use to hold your bindings while glueing?
I like Todd Stocks' use of golf tees to wrap the rubber around. How about making an upper caul slightly smaller than the dimensions of the top or back and duplicate the golf tee idea so that you can use thick elastic bands to pull in the bindings.I am sure these would be cheap, and placed every 3/4" or so you could apply very even pressure all the way around.You could do a simple test to see how much they would have to be stretched to accomplish your goal.
Author:  Michael Dale Payne [ Thu Jan 22, 2009 2:18 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: What do you use to hold your bindings while glueing?
I have done rubber bands, surgical tubing, inner tube rubber, cotton rope bias tape, you name it. I have found paying attention to well fitted bends and strapping tape to be as effected as any. Yes a Ven. Cutaway required a tad more persuasion but the strapping tape is more than capable with properly fitted bends. There is nothing wrong with any of the other methods at all I just find strapping tape convenient and quicker.
Author:  efialtis [ Thu Jan 22, 2009 2:19 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: What do you use to hold your bindings while glueing?
Further to my previous post,Dykema Rubber Band Co. makes a size 84 (3 1/2" x 1/2" x 1/32") which is probably perfect.
Author:  SteveSmith [ Thu Jan 22, 2009 2:32 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: What do you use to hold your bindings while glueing?
efialtis wrote:
I like Todd Stocks' use of golf tees to wrap the rubber around. How about making an upper caul slightly smaller than the dimensions of the top or back and duplicate the golf tee idea so that you can use thick elastic bands to pull in the bindings.I am sure these would be cheap, and placed every 3/4" or so you could apply very even pressure all the way around.You could do a simple test to see how much they would have to be stretched to accomplish your goal.


Those are 2" deck screws, IIRC. Golf tees won't work.
Author:  efialtis [ Thu Jan 22, 2009 3:28 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: What do you use to hold your bindings while glueing?
Thanks' Steve, your probably right. You want something that will hold at least 5-10 lbs. of force.
Author:  efialtis [ Thu Jan 22, 2009 11:18 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: What do you use to hold your bindings while glueing?
You can tell that winter is getting to me when I start seeing golf tees instead of screws !
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