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First Rosette just glued in !! EEEHHH Help me !!
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Author:  Lars Stahl [ Thu Jan 15, 2009 2:40 pm ]
Post subject:  First Rosette just glued in !! EEEHHH Help me !!
Hi all. Ok so I just glued in my first rosette !! went .....ok. I need some help though.
The channel I made went great. but as i put in the strips, wood etc, it was REAL snug ! so It took awhile to get it in about 7 min or so ! meanwhile the glue around the rosette was laying there and though is was not much, it looks dirty from fingers etc, (rosette havent even dried yet ) but still I am afraid that glue will leave marks , and thats my question :D will some glue leave marks on the soundboard, and if so will it penetrate deep ? as my soundboard it almost the final thickness !

PS-I will post photos as soon as its dry !

Lars.
Author:  Hesh [ Thu Jan 15, 2009 3:02 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: First Rosette just glued in !! EEEHHH Help me !!
Lars bro what glue did you use?
Author:  Lars Stahl [ Thu Jan 15, 2009 3:05 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: First Rosette just glued in !! EEEHHH Help me !!
Hi Hesh , Glad to see your up and working in your shop again !!!!! [clap] [clap]

I used Titebond . and spotglued some CA so the wood would not rise, but its titebond thats on the soundboard .
Author:  WaddyThomson [ Thu Jan 15, 2009 3:48 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: First Rosette just glued in !! EEEHHH Help me !!
Lars, you are probably going to be fine. After the glue dries, you are going to either scrape or sand the rosette flush with the top, and/or the top level with the rosette, before you do any finishing. All that glue will sand off just fine. In the future, I would recommend putting a spit coat of dewaxed shellac on the top before installing a rosette. It helps keep the glue from soaking into the surface of the top, and it, sort of, just sits there, and is a bit easier to sand off.
Author:  Hesh [ Thu Jan 15, 2009 4:15 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: First Rosette just glued in !! EEEHHH Help me !!
What Waddy and Todd said :D

I use Titebond for my rosettes and it's a good idea to not have a tight dry fit of the parts. Water based glues will swell the wood a bit and in addition the glue joint will take up some space too.

I like to have a light press fit of the parts dry and let the swelling work in my favor.

Titebond cleans up very well and I have never stained a top with it.
Author:  Lars Stahl [ Thu Jan 15, 2009 4:18 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: First Rosette just glued in !! EEEHHH Help me !!
Thanks a lot !!!!! I feel much better now ! 1 more question though, how long can I wait minimum before I start sanding, scraping etc.
Author:  WaddyThomson [ Thu Jan 15, 2009 4:24 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: First Rosette just glued in !! EEEHHH Help me !!
Personally, I would let it dry overnight, but you could probably do it within 5 or 6 hours. You don't want to pull something out because it's not dry though, and it takes a while for it to dry on the inside of the joints under the inlaid wood.
Author:  Lars Stahl [ Thu Jan 15, 2009 4:42 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: First Rosette just glued in !! EEEHHH Help me !!
Thanks Waddy. I will force myself to wait then !! :D

Lars.
Author:  Hesh [ Thu Jan 15, 2009 4:51 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: First Rosette just glued in !! EEEHHH Help me !!
What Waddy said again.... :D

But this is as good a place as any to post this. After I glue my wood rosettes I wait 30 minutes or so and then skim sand the top, rosette up, in the Performax. I know the glue is not all the way dry yet but this is exactly what I want. The skim sanding in the thickness sander uncovers some wet glue and mixes it with dust and fills any gaps. I have done this on the last 6-7 guitars and the results were gapless rosettes every time. And no I see no glue on the sanding belts either.

It works great and if you are skeptical try it for yourself. :)
Author:  Hesh [ Thu Jan 15, 2009 4:53 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: First Rosette just glued in !! EEEHHH Help me !!
Oh and Lars sorry for the high-jack and if I were you I would wait as Waddy indicated. The above was a technique for filling rosette gaps and not meant to be something that you should do right now. :D
Author:  Zach Ehley [ Thu Jan 15, 2009 6:06 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: First Rosette just glued in !! EEEHHH Help me !!
WaddyThomson wrote:
In the future, I would recommend putting a spit coat of dewaxed shellac on the top before installing a rosette. It helps keep the glue from soaking into the surface of the top, and it, sort of, just sits there, and is a bit easier to sand off.


Even with LMI white or Titebond? I thought that was only for CA. I've always used LMI white and never had a problem on the 10 or so rosettes ive done. (never did w/ shell though, all wood) I don't remember reading about this other than with CA.
Author:  WaddyThomson [ Thu Jan 15, 2009 6:23 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: First Rosette just glued in !! EEEHHH Help me !!
The spit coat of shellac is good to use before cutting the rosette channels. It helps stiffen the wood that is being cut, and minimizes tear-out. It also helps keep the top cleaner, by not letting stuff adhere very well. What you are thinking about, when using CA, is using shellac inside the rosette channels, to seal the end grain where CA can soak into the Spruce or Cedar and cause some staining, that cannot be removed. Two different applications for shellac.
Author:  Lars Stahl [ Thu Jan 15, 2009 6:27 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: First Rosette just glued in !! "PHOTOS"
Ok here are some photos ! of the masterpiece :D
It will be a bound soundhole, so the dark line is soon gone !
and you can see the glue leftovers around the edges. but other than that I think there will be no gaps etc etc. I will post some shots of it as its bound.

like I said, its my first, so dont be afraid to kill me with critique.
Lars.
Attachment:
rosette2.jpg
Attachment:
rosette3.jpg
Attachment:
rosette4.jpg
Author:  Larry Drover [ Thu Jan 15, 2009 6:57 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: First Rosette just glued in !! EEEHHH Help me !!
Hesh wrote:

After I glue my wood rosettes I wait 30 minutes or so and then skim sand the top, rosette up, in the Performax. And no I see no glue on the sanding belts either.


I do the same and it really does do a nice job....But I do get glue on the sanding drum
belt....Also I find that when I am using abalone ,the belt really fills up badly and has to be changed.....I use 80 grit sanding belts ....My dust collector is 600 CFM.....I usually install a new belt, thickness the sides, Back, and lastly the top with the abalone rosette....The belt is usually done at this point....What sanding grit do you use?

Oh by the way Lars ,that rosette looks GREAT.....Larry
Author:  Hesh [ Thu Jan 15, 2009 7:20 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: First Rosette just glued in !! EEEHHH Help me !!
Larry bro I use 120 for leveling a rosette and I only do this technique on all wood rosettes. I clean up all the squeeze-out prior to running the top through the Play dough Fun Factory (Performax) so the only not-yet-dry glue that comes into play is between the the rosette edges and the top. I would not attempt this with shell although I might now after hearing that it works well for you. [:Y:]

Lars your rosette looks killer!!!! [:Y:] [clap] [clap] [clap] [clap] [clap] It's pretty clear that you have the artist's eye too in as much as I like the combos and I am usually not a fan of shell. Outstanding!!!!
Author:  Lars Stahl [ Thu Jan 15, 2009 9:15 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: First Rosette just glued in !! EEEHHH Help me !!
WOW thanks, It meen SOOOO much to hear that !!!!.
I will post more photos as I have bound the soundhole etc :? .

Lars.
Author:  Ricardo [ Thu Jan 15, 2009 9:55 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: First Rosette just glued in !! EEEHHH Help me !!
Thats a real pretty rosette Lars! [:Y:] [:Y:] Is that red abalone you used?
Author:  ClintB [ Thu Jan 15, 2009 10:03 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: First Rosette just glued in !! EEEHHH Help me !!
That rosette looks really clean for a first, Lars. Very well Done!!
Author:  WaddyThomson [ Thu Jan 15, 2009 11:02 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: First Rosette just glued in !! EEEHHH Help me !!
It looks really good to me too, Lars. You have nothing to worry about.
Author:  Steve Kinnaird [ Thu Jan 15, 2009 11:10 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: First Rosette just glued in !! EEEHHH Help me !!
First impression Lars, from looking at the pic:
"Wow, that's really pretty. I love those colors."
(That's almost an exact quote. I really do like it. Nice job!)

Steve
Author:  Lars Stahl [ Fri Jan 16, 2009 5:08 am ]
Post subject:  Re: First Rosette just glued in !! EEEHHH Help me !!
Thank you all. I was up in the middle of the n ight just to make sure nothing had popped out of place hahaha. still lookt ok. PUH. :D
Ricardo, its Macassar but the photos came out a little reddish.

Lars.
Author:  Lillian F-W [ Fri Jan 16, 2009 8:00 am ]
Post subject:  Re: First Rosette just glued in !! EEEHHH Help me !!
Its stressful doing your first one isn't it? I had the same problems as you. I really didn't think it would work. I expected I'd have to grab another top set and start all over again. Isn't it such a relief to see that despite all the panic, it turned out great?

Love the design Lars.
Author:  Rob Lak [ Fri Jan 16, 2009 8:26 am ]
Post subject:  Re: First Rosette just glued in !! EEEHHH Help me !!
Lars - having just completed my first you have done an outstanding job! Congrats!
Author:  Lars Stahl [ Fri Jan 16, 2009 12:53 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: First Rosette just glued in !! EEEHHH Help me !!
Thanks for all the warm kind words. !! :D [:Y:] [clap] [clap]

Yes Lillian, I was waiting for the worst, But It went fine in the end, PUHU. !! before starting, I never thought I would make it. ! So new as i feel like king ! I will start binding the soundhole, I am in here now to see how to do it right !! :oops: .

Thanks Rob, how did yours turn out ? how did you proceed ? CA Titebond ? etc.

Lars
Author:  Mike Collins [ Fri Jan 16, 2009 1:55 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: First Rosette just glued in !! EEEHHH Help me !!
Lars;
Nice design & work !! [clap]
Pearl & wood are as beautiful as it gets !

Mike
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