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| Classical: Use of mold for sides? http://www.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10101&t=20437 |
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| Author: | Sam W [ Sat Jan 10, 2009 6:12 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Classical: Use of mold for sides? |
I've have followed the Cumpiano book primarily in my builds but altered it slightly. I built a mold and used a bolt on neck. I really want to build using the traditional workboard but bending the sides without a mold makes me a bit hesitant. For those of you who build using the traditional workboard and slots in the neck for the sides, do you alter the workboard to make use of a mold or do you bend the sides totally freehand? |
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| Author: | Jim Kirby [ Sat Jan 10, 2009 6:31 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Classical: Use of mold for sides? |
Sam - All of my classicals so far have been built using a solera as described in Courtnall's book, but the batch I am working on now are being built with a mold following Bogdanovich' book. The mold is a lot of work to put together, and I think in the future if I change designs again that I will build a solera rather than a mold. In either case, I've bent all the sides on a Fox style bender. Not sure why going with one approach or the other would change that? (Sorry if I'm being dense). |
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| Author: | Sam W [ Sat Jan 10, 2009 8:19 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Classical: Use of mold for sides? |
Jim It's not you, it's probably just me not understanding something or not explaining things very well. Let me try to clarify. When I think of a traditional method on a workboard (solera), I see the sides being attached to the rest of the guitar without any support (a mold). The sides have to be bent accurately to the shape and stay that way without any springback (or inaccurate bending). I've seen some molds (with a cut out area for the guitar neck) attached to the workboard so that the sides are supported by a mold when attached to the rest of the guitar. So my question is do people bother with this extra mold or just attach everything "freehand" without the mold on the workboard. Also, I don't have a bender. I like to bend on a pipe if that makes any difference to how accurate I can get the sides to shape. I feel like I do pretty well when getting them into a mold, I just don't know how well I could bend them without it. |
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| Author: | WaddyThomson [ Sat Jan 10, 2009 9:02 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Classical: Use of mold for sides? |
Most often when you build on a solera, you support the sides with blocks at various points around the body. While it's not a mold, it is support, and you can clamp the sides to the blocks if you need to. However, I bent my first free hand, on a pipe, and had no spring back and no problem fitting the sides to the top in the solera. This is, obviously, before trimming to length. Attachment: P1000405 (Large).JPG
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| Author: | douglas ingram [ Sat Jan 10, 2009 11:49 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Classical: Use of mold for sides? |
I've built both ways, and now seem to favour using the molds on the Solera. Its really straightforward, before you put the soundboard on the Solera, position the mold, secure it in place to prevent it from moving, and then either bolt it, or screw it in place from below. This allows you to remove and replace it repeatedly and accurately. I use the Romanillos side attachment method for the heel. It makes like more confident. -I position the soundboard and secure it -then the neck -then the mold -then the sides -then secure the sides to the heel block -the tail block -then the Dentellones |
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| Author: | Mike Collins [ Sun Jan 11, 2009 7:35 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Classical: Use of mold for sides? |
I do the same as Waddy; The freedom of an open workboard makes it easier for me . Plus I'm slow to change -I've made 100's of guitars on a open board. I have 3 at my desposal. Man I'd like to hear both your guitars & Douglas little Torres. I use a mold to hold sides I've bent but will not get to work on for awhile. It' helps to keep them in shape over a long period. Mike |
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| Author: | douglas ingram [ Sun Jan 11, 2009 1:06 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Classical: Use of mold for sides? |
Mike Collins wrote: Man I'd like to hear both your guitars & Douglas little Torres. I use a mold to hold sides I've bent but will not get to work on for awhile. It' helps to keep them in shape over a long period. Mike Mike, you'll get to hear them soon enough. Right after me, and after I figure out how to record them! I've got a Panormo that I just closed up. My first. I'm really looking forward to that one to. I made my molds primarily, like you, to hold the sides in their proper shape until ready to use. Then figured why not use it on the Solera, too? I already have them at my disposal. The Solera is built to use the angle braskets, so I can go either way. That, and last time I used the brackets I foolishly put them away somewhere safe. Darned if I can find them now... |
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| Author: | Mike Collins [ Sun Jan 11, 2009 4:39 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Classical: Use of mold for sides? |
Doug. I'm making a LaCote' 1834, and a Martin 1850s' I'm doing them on a solara also! The Martin is OLD Braz. and the LaCote' is Euro Maple. Both old Euro tops . I'm using "pegheds" on the french one. www.pegheds.com And Black Pearl Waverlys on the Martin !! Plus a torch inlay!! I love these little guitars!!!!! Mike ![[:Y:]](./images/smilies/smiley20.gif "Thumbs Up")
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| Author: | Sam W [ Mon Jan 12, 2009 12:48 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Classical: Use of mold for sides? |
Thanks for the pictures and insights. They are very helpful. Waddy- I've said before your first guitar was very nice. Now knowing you bent the sides without a mold is even more impressive. |
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| Author: | WaddyThomson [ Mon Jan 12, 2009 2:51 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Classical: Use of mold for sides? |
I actually made an inside half mold and an outside half mold, but I only used them as a guide to see if the bend was close to right. When I made the mold, i built a little over bend into it, so I had to adjust the sides to fit the top, anyway, even after they fit the mold. The only thing I see as an advantage to the mold, is to make sure you are square in your bending. You could do the same thing with a single template, and the blocks also help along those lines. The molds might be useful if you wanted to keep sides for a while after bending, but I have a practice side that I bent 8 or 10 months ago, and it has not changed one iota. |
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| Author: | jfmckenna [ Tue Jan 13, 2009 3:32 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Classical: Use of mold for sides? |
It's been my experience that a mold does not do much good when you pipe bend unless you are insanely good at bending on a pipe. For me at least there is always some minor discrepancy with my bends to where I am going to have to 'force' fit it to the glue line and this is easily done with an open work board. And I mean very moderate force to the glue line. If you have to jam it up against the sides of a mold for example to fit the lines that would be bad. So on an open board sometimes I have to go in or outside the glue line but it's negligible and not easily noticed when the guitar is done. A side bender and a mold of the same fit would be perfect. I wish I had a side bender but I don't really think the mold is necessary. |
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| Author: | WaddyThomson [ Tue Jan 13, 2009 4:22 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Classical: Use of mold for sides? |
As I said, I found the molds useful to make sure I was staying square with my bending. Here, you can see one side sitting in the outside mold, not perfect, but very square to the edges, and the second side, not completed, yet, but also square to the mold, and close in it's fit. If I had chosen to, I could also have clamped the sides to the mold to make sure there was no spring back, but I didn't find that necessary. Attachment: P1000400 (Large).JPG
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